The Feminist Pub - come in and chat.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

This is something like the fourth pub chat thread - please pull up a chair at the bar. Everyone welcome.

Old thread is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1920422-The-Feminist-Pub-continued?

But it's pretty much full so welcome in.

I often wondered what teacher's can say about everybody's precious little offspring grin

My Mum once taught a kid that reminded her of DB so much she found one of his old reports and copied the comment.

I was told by DD2's teacher that she just had to look at the teacher, smile and ask to go to the toilet and the teacher's heart would melt. DD2 does have gorgeous eyes but she is also an arch manipulator. She'll go far!

My subject reports are quite good and individual, commenting on particular areas of strength and weakness, and I set individual targets to help move the child on to the next step. It's the comments I have to write as a form tutor that are really samey, as the smt seem to have decided to strip our comments of any substance by removing our ability to read and comment about what the subject teachers have written . So I can only comment on what I see in 15 mins each morning . I've talked a lot about GCSE option choices that are coming up.

I used to do form tutor ones after the subject ones had been done, but then SMT realized it gave them nothing to write about so we weren't allowed to comment on the overall report.

Seriously. Does any parent expect an individual comment from a random member of SMT who has never even met the child?

I would have thought parents would rather have a more personal comment from the form tutor. Apparently this way is to make our lives easier as well as making the process more time efficient. It just makes me Feel like my comments are all rather bland with no substance.

Perhaps unrelated, but the Hairy Arm Tactic to let some managers think there is a reason to their jobs.

I'm hungry ...

Unfortunately I have some needy people I'm responsible for. It stresses me out. Sometimes I want to shake them and tell them to get a grip or quit but I haven't so far. I guess I shouldn't. Everyone deserves a chance.... But how about me? >

I had a snack. I need a haircut.

Buffy that's why you need the Hairy Arm Tactics. They are for managing needy managers.

I am so stealing the Hairy Arm Tactic - brill!

I have this theory that the entire spectrum of male interaction (and some female ones too) can be explained as a pissing competition - who can piss the furthest or at least 'I can piss further than you'. Imagine needing to remove the hairy arm to be happy one has left ones mark.

May I dive in, order a pint and slump over the bar? I'm teaching a lit theory course that is entirely devoid of feminism. Today one of the brightest students related the topic to feminism in a subtle, clever way ... and I really, really wished I could be teaching a different course.

I think 'hairy arm' is interesting ... but, in my temporarily cynical phase, is that not something that's easier for men/majorities to use? You might get a 'just remove the duck' if you're the up-and-coming young white male, but maybe you get 'this confirms you are an idiot' if you're anyone else.

You lot might like this
www.theonion.com/articles/woman-takes-short-halfhour-break-from-being-femini,35026/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default

Sorry to just wade in having not read anything but the last page of the thread (congratulations Bertie!).

Did anyone see Newsnight. Anne Robinson was victim-blaming women who'd been sexually assaulted. She kept pushing that if women stood up to men and reported then they'dstopsexually assaulting us . She also tried to convince the rest of the women on the panel that men wouldn't sexually assault them because they were 'strong' . Double This was after Joan Bakewell had just told her how she had been groped on a number of occasions 30yrs ago in TV. Anyway Stella Creasey was awesome and just shot her down. Every time I see her on television I think I lurve her a bit more. Joan Bakewell was great too and totally backed her up showing how it was systematic and the pressures are all on women not to report.

Anyway, as you were

It's a real case of 'get the old outspoken women out to defend sexism' today isn't it. Ann Leslie was on the PM programme yesterday suggesting we stub out cigarettes on men who grope us. What useful advice! There was quite a good article in the Torygraph about this talking about the generational divide over this subject, the oldies just don't get it (apologies in advance to the old feminists about)!

Just saw a link to this on another parenting site and thought of you lot: www.formfiftyfive.com/ Just what makes anyone think that header is appropriate?

Saluting all dealing with Canadian student, I can't manage it today!

Ok, I am going to try and say something that I see totally clearly in my own head, but am not quite sure whether I can get it across just how I mean it .
I think that to social conventions of how a 'nice girl' is to behave and what she is to expect/tolerate with patriarchy does encourage behaviour that puts womankind at higher risk of abuse. The responsibility for any kind of abuse lies with the abuser (and suggesting to burn people with cigarette butts is just wrong on so many levels, I'll start with saying: wot aboutz the non-smokers? ) and individual women whether they are confident or timid or wearing a mini-skirt or a burqa or lots of make-up or none are all potential targets for violence, but as a society if there were more respect for less soft, 'feminine', submissive, passive behaviour from women I think it would be less 'acceptable' for men to act as pratts or become disrespectful or violent (I see one as a step up from the other).

Does that make any sense at all? I blame the patriarchy for this set-up, NOT individual women.

I have the same issue with male/female endings of nouns in certain languages (less of an issue in English what with everything/everybody being 'the', but a real biggie in German: I don't see the need for saying somebody is a 'butcher' or a 'butcheressa' to indicate their job AND their gender - so irrelevant. But the default is of course the male version... Ack).

PD, I know what you mean, and it was a bit of the message of The Gift Of Fear, where the author says not to worry about offending a guy who'd approached you in a dark car park or whatever - he was the insensitive one (at best) for not thinking about he was coming across.it's the same as that grata article about rape which is that society's message is put up with it and play along... Until the occasion when something bad does happen, when you should have known better all along.

And also - cigarette butts?anyone think that there wouldn't be a bunch of "that mad bitch, I was just being friendly and look what she did" type responses?

I can't manage the student either. There are so many 'young men' who come on here and it's never "I really want to learn". It is always "ah, you are a useful resource". Either because of issues with a partner, or an academic assignment or whatever. I just can't be bothered to be someone's free pass.

Yes Pacific, what you say makes a lot of sense.

On the language, I go further. I know English is better than a lot of languages, but third person singular pronouns annoy me. Sex is the only aspect of a person that makes it into English pronouns in this way. Not respect. Not age. Not relationship. Just sodding sex. I feel irritated that, when I speak or write, I am obliged by the structure of my language to always, always, draw attention to the sex of the person about whom I am speaking/writing (or tie myself in linguistic knots intentionally avoiding doing so).

Now I want to know who or what the Canadian student is

I take it it's a 'he'? (see what I did there?)

I would love to do some work on how language reflects hierarchies within society. Not just the individual words but everything from sing lyrics to how people phrase things to words etc.

I have noticed that certain posters on here and people in rl just sound like they are entitled and the centre if their own world, and u don't mean just some obvious trolls.

Ach, I just responded to the Canadian student. Probably shouldn't have bothered. Nice to get it out of my system though.

Genuine or not? I think probably not - he flew off the handle and started slagging off feminists a bit too quickly for my liking. And saying "I'm interested in feminism because of my sister/niece/daughter" etc is an old MRA trick.

Do you notice that on MN, particularly FWR, women are defined by their "feminism" - sort of "oh, well if this is what feminists are like, I'm glad I'm not one" or even, as in the case of Mr Canadian, "I'm trying to listen to women, but I'm right and you're all being so horrible to me!" Get's ya down after a while.

I nearly posted "I don't believe you are sincere" after the first couple of "you iz mean bitchez" posts from him, but I couldn't be arsed!

Canadian student? Go on, some kind person, PM me.

sabrina - oh, god yes. That really pisses me off. We're all collectively responsible for all feminists everywhere, too, have you noticed? 'One person you've never met was mean to me, you feminists are all evil bitches!'

Oh, come on, show me please