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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

The Feminist Pub - come in and chat.

999 replies

LRDtheFeministDragon · 07/01/2014 18:54

This is something like the fourth pub chat thread - please pull up a chair at the bar. Everyone welcome. Smile

Old thread is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1920422-The-Feminist-Pub-continued?

But it's pretty much full so welcome in.

OP posts:
kickassangel · 21/01/2014 00:25

Oh - and well done on the report writing!

UptoapointLordCopper · 21/01/2014 10:31

As I was walking to my office, musing upon the types of assumptions people make about you, I came to the conclusion that the world is full of stupid arseholes, based on my sampling.

Tell me I'm wrong. Bloody prove it.

TeiTetua · 21/01/2014 14:24

Methinks all the world is mad except for me and thee: and sometimes I do wonder about thee.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 21/01/2014 14:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PacificDogwood · 21/01/2014 16:24

I don't know that it should be 'equal leisure time'; maybe 'equal effort spent' or 'equivalent chores' which then means the person working more efficiently gets more time 'off'?
Makes sense in my head.
I feel housework is not much of an issue in our house (DH does more than his fair share because he cares more than I do, we do have some help with cleaning, I tidy 'better' than he does because I actually tidy whereas he makes piles).
I suspect it's another thing where 'one size fits all' does not exist.

Quick rant: just back from a meeting with DS1's (female) teacher. He's 10, almost 11, overachiever, tends to be anxious and recently had a problem with feeling intimidated by his teacher. Good meeting, I hope having aired the issue that it will be resolved. But twice, twice, she said that when DS1 and his best friend sqaubble over something ridiculous or chat too much she'll refer to them as 'girls', as in: "Girls, stop chatting" or "Stop that arguing, you're behaving like girls". Ack.
I did not challenge, but discussed in the car on the way home how misplaced and horrible I found it. I think he got it. I live in hope.

TheDoctrineOf2014 · 21/01/2014 16:26

Sit down and divide up chores?

And don't help with his if yours are done first Smile

PenguinsDontEatKale · 21/01/2014 16:33

Sorry, I am useless at the chores thing. I think we both despair equally of one another at not doing things (different things bug us, my DH is a pile-maker too!). I do sometimes rant that DH does the glory jobs and I do the drudge that no one notices.

Pacific - That would have set me off. I once had a total rant in quite a formal work setting when someone said something about 'screeching like girls'. It wasn't at all appropriate to the setting and I was a bit Blush afterwards, but it is one of those issues where I cannot, cannot bite my tongue.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 21/01/2014 16:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertieBottsJustGotMarried · 21/01/2014 16:48

marking place

PenguinsDontEatKale · 21/01/2014 16:53

Congratulations Bertie! Didn't know you had got married. Assuming I'm not taking the name change too literally!

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 21/01/2014 16:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PacificDogwood · 21/01/2014 16:59

Even with the benefit of (2 hours) hindsight, it would not have been appropriate to bring it up in the setting of that particular meeting (DS1 was bricking it and was worried that having even called this meeting would 'count against' him and he was being v brave and impressively honest "I felt you were calling me stupid" - whole other host of issues with this particular teacher tbh).
I don't know how to bring it up now, after the fact? As most primary schools, all teachers are women (bar the football coach...), this particular one has riled more than one parent over many years and is generally Not An Easy Person To Get Along With. The head teacher otoh is a rather fabulous feminist - all 4ft 10 of her, I love her to bits Grin. I could mention it to her...

Wrt 'house' work: as nobody does the laundry as well as I do (no, really, nobody does...Blush), I am quite happy for it to be 'my' chore. But otoh I expect DH to do 'his' chores, like anything that involves a drill (I have drillophobia - that's a real condition, honest Blush). And he doesn't. So 5 years after moving in to this version of our house (major conversion) many, many pictures are still not hung up. I have stopped going on about it, but have plans to hire a handyman for a couple of hours And Just Get It Done .

I totally sympathise how this kind of thing makes you feel differently about your DH, Buffy; not sure what the answer it...

PacificDogwood · 21/01/2014 17:00

Oh, and I was being so discrete and not mentioning your recent event, Bertie; I never noticed your NC

She had a Lego cake - coolest thing ever, ladies Grin

BertieBottsJustGotMarried · 21/01/2014 17:00

No, I did Grin it was all arranged and done within 6 weeks! I haven't read the thread so sorry for not contributing. Will catch up in a bit.

PenguinsDontEatKale · 21/01/2014 17:18

A lego cake?! That is utterly fabulous. Congratulations again.

AntiJamDidi · 21/01/2014 17:59

Congratulations Bertie Grin I want a Lego cake, not enough to want ti get married though Wink

PacificDogwood · 21/01/2014 18:04

Anti, years ago my mum made DS1 a proper Lego cake: it looked like one ginormous piece of Lego in blue, an 'eighter' iykwim. With little 'eighters' round the edges in different colours. I think it was for his 8th birthday, so no wedding required Grin.

PenguinsDontEatKale · 21/01/2014 18:21

Oooh, what did she make the bobbles out of? DD1 would love a lego cake for her birthday in a few months (if I felt up to it!)

BertieBottsJustGotMarried · 21/01/2014 18:53

Well it was a wedding cake but I had a lego bride and groom topper. We added DS as well, and then the spare lego flowers were dotted around the cake. Had to leave the cake in the UK though as we live in Germany and it was too heavy to come back in a suitcase :( DH has the lego topper on his desk at work now.

I think with the housework it's not so much about dividing up effort or time or amount of tasks, because life isn't like that. But one person should not be left feeling resentful or that the burden falls to them. There was an interesting example in a thread ages ago about a hypothetical situation where one partner is putting in a lot more hours at work not through necessity, but through choice, and (possibly IIRC) not to work towards a shared/family goal such as a promotion which would improve the household finances. The dilemma was, does the other partner pick up the slack in housework to allow his/her partner equal leisure time or does the extra unnecessary work count as usage of leisure time and hence no extra housework needs to be done by the other spouse.

I think the mark of a respectful relationship is to be able to talk about it and set it out and see what does seem fair, to BOTH people. Although that's difficult if you have a different idea about what's fair. But I would hope that a partner who truly sees you as an equal would be able to hash out the reasons why rather than just assuming it's fair for them to do less and you to do more.

PenguinsDontEatKale · 21/01/2014 19:07

Not sure if you were answering me, but I kind of guessed the wedding cake wasn't shaped like a lego brick Bertie (although how cool would that be?!). I was asking Pacific. Such a shame you had to leave the cake to be eaten by others.

BertieBottsJustGotMarried · 21/01/2014 19:11

Well, MIL still has the top part which we may get back. But I'm not holding out much hope because every time they give us food I have to repackage it as it reeks of smoke :( Maybe the icing will protect it!

AntiJamDidi · 21/01/2014 22:11

I might look into making a Lego cake for my birthday then. I imagine I could just do a cuboid cake with maybe cupcakes on the top to make the bobbles. Much less hassle than a wedding Grin

That sounds lovely Bertie, I hope your cake stands up to being looked after by your mil. Aren't you supposed to eat the cake though? Or was it too big for it all to get eaten at the reception?

BertieBottsJustGotMarried · 21/01/2014 22:22

Hardly anybody ate it at the reception, we cut the bottom part in half, we only had 35 guests though. I had one slice! We somehow ended up with the half a cake and four slices wrapped in napkins at the hotel, so I carried it through town the next morning waiting for our lift, hoping to donate the extra slices to a homeless person or something but it was raining so there were none to be seen.

SIL and BIL had the other half of the bottom part, I suspect they will eat one slice and end up chucking it :( Ah well.

AntiJamDidi · 21/01/2014 23:20

I have finally finished all my reports Grin. Until June at least. But that's over 100 reports I have written in the past 2 weeks, I'm sure the quality of the first ones was slightly better than the last ones as I seem to have developed a 'fuck it, that'll do' attitude this evening Blush. Actually, I'm sure they're all good, it's just to me they sound quite samey, but the parents only get to read one, rather than a whole class full, so they should sound fine.

Our solution to the housework problem is to make teenage dd1 do it all Grin. Of course we pay her, so it's no different than us hiring a cleaner and her having a weekend job. It takes her about an afternoon at the weekend to clean bathroom, kitchen and vacuum the common areas (we don't expect her to do any bedrooms other than her own). Anything that dd1 doesn't do gets pretty evenly split between dp and I it really doesn't, he does way more of it but he doesn't seem to have realised that yet and I'm not volunteering that information

PacificDogwood · 21/01/2014 23:22