The Feminist Pub - come in and chat.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

This is something like the fourth pub chat thread - please pull up a chair at the bar. Everyone welcome.

Old thread is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1920422-The-Feminist-Pub-continued?

But it's pretty much full so welcome in.

Enjoy!

I do get mine threaded (I know, I know, but they are VERY bushy and try to take over my whole face if I'm not careful) - is that what you mean?

Yes, the very defined, harsh outline seems to be a 'thing', as is the almost triangular middle bit. I don't geddit. Clearly, I don't.

I get my eyebrows done too and I do think it 'opens' my face (I wear glasses and no make-up). But I am quite lackadaisical about it. Bonsoir would hate my personal grooming regime as there is none, only intermittent haphazard attempt to conform depending on social occasion .

I get mine threaded for the same reason Mooncup. I would quite seriously look like Denis Healey if someone didn't regularly pin me down and remove my wookie-like eyebrows. By regularly, I mean twice a year. It's also because when I was a teenager, I was massively taken the piss out of because of my bushy eyebrows, so I had a go at plucking them myself, which then lead to having the piss taken out of me for having uneven eyebrows.

I wish I had never started the whole thing.

I get mine waxed and dyed. They are really fair and I look like I have none if a don't dye them. Then they need to be shaped cos straggly dyed brows looks weird and unnatural.

I also get my lashes dyed due to lack of color.

Dh trims his eyebrows (no, really, with nail scissors) and plucks nose and ear hair - he's quite handsome, really.
So I don't think that facial hair maintenance is particularly a feminist issue although one could debate why we all want to have wide-open looking eyes (baby proportions = innocent = conventional female 'beauty').

I think that the issue isn't who does what, but how & why is it decided that certain things are fashionable?

We could bring a Marxist interpretation, saying it's the ruling class make us do these things to keep capitalism going & to distract us from the oppression of our lives, or use v similar arguments from a feminist perspective.

What I think really shouldn't be denied is that it IS social conditioning, not 'natural' to want to look this way.

The discussion should really be why do we all want to fit in & be accepted so much? Why isnt society more open to diversity?

I remember my mum despairing when I was a teenager as she thought I plucked my eyebrows too thin, which was the fashion at the time. Now I get them threaded every so often.

I keep up a relatively high standard of grooming, because I'm well aware of the fact that it gets me more respect (especially at work). I work in technology, so figure that just getting ahead there is enough of a fight. I'm not really prepared to fight all the battles! Don't know if that makes me a bad feminist? I hope not :)

that would be a great discussion, Kickass

Yes, I think you've nailed it, kickassangel - why does society dislike and 'punish' Otherness?

My teenage DD seems happy enough with her eyebrows au naturel, but she bullies persuades DH to trim his. They do get a bit scarily Dawkins-esque otherwise.

They probably unsettle her, waving away like a pair of alien antennas, during the curfew/homework/pocket money 'discussions'

Nah, they're just embarrassing

Can I have a large glass of whatever is the most alcoholic please?

I've had a shit day where I've heard rumours I wish I could unhear but I can't, and I'm also not allowed to talk about them due to confidentiality issues. And I've got another 2.5 - 3 hrs work to do tonight because I've got 70 reports to write by Wednesday :(

AntiJam

Nothing for me. I'm off to bed soon. But probably shouldn't have called that ukip arse a misogynist arse though on the other thread... Name-calling is so childish...

Misogynist arse is too polite for him

Ah crap, UKIP supporters have been a bit busy here today. Twats.

Slainte, AntiJam - hope lubrication helps the writing process.

Name-calling can be cathartic - don't tell my DSs I said that.

Name calling can most definitely be cathartic. I've called a few people some rather choice names today, mostly in the privacy of my own head but if they were here I'd call them the same names to their face.

The report writing process would be so much quicker if I didn't keep stopping to check mn Back to work for me. No more mn til this I've finished this class. I may see you in the early hours of the morning.

I'm pissed off at used car salesmen today. Yesterday DH went round all the dealers to check our 3 carseats could fit in the back row of their various 7 seater cars (you'd be surprised how few 'family' cars fit 3 carseats). He was sent because I couldn't be arsed to do the legwork of shifting 3 carseats in and out of various cars but I'm the one buying the car and I'm the one who will be driving the car. Anyway, he test drove one car of the right model but too new and therefore expensive. He had a discussion with the sales rep about how another dealer, part of the same company, in the neighbouring town had a model of the right price and could that be transferred over so we look at that. Apparently the two dealers don't talk to each other but if we liked the model then our local dealer could source one of the right price for us. Fine said DH, but my wife will need to test drive this model before we put down a deposit for a car because it will be her car.

So I go down to the dealer and basically was told 'You have to book for a test drive and anyway your DH said he is buying from the other dealer'. So I wasn't allowed to test drive the car I wanted to test drive after waiting half a bloody hour for a test drive. But it was all said so 'politely' it was only after I got home that I realised the salesman had basically ignored everything I said and thought his interpretation of what DH had said was more important than me telling him 'no, we're not planning on buying the car from the other dealer'. So annoyed because if I'd not mentioned DH had been in I'd have got a bloody test drive because the first guy I spoke to was quite happy for me to have a test drive without an appointment, it's only when they realised DH had already had one that they didn't want to let me have one.

Anyway, wonderful DH said he'll phone to complain tomorrow and tell them that he's the one phoning to complain because clearly they are so bloody sexist there is no point a woman bothering to complain and they should realise that if a man says his wife needs to test drive a model that means his wife needs to test drive a model if they want a sale. He's a fantastic complainer so should be amusing to see what they do. Not that I think we should buy from the wankers anyway.

Why isnt society more open to diversity?

Our ability to pick up on signals from others and identify those who are most like us enables co-operation and therefore survival. It probably was terribly important for stone age man. We live in quite an accepting society (not thinking specifically about body hair here) when looked at from a historic perspective but history tells us that tolerant societies can flip to intolerant ones in the blink of an eye. Just think about the Jews being pushed around Europe from one tolerant society to the next because something switched and people practicing a different religion or looking different was no longer accepted in a previously tolerant society. Quite depressing really, we might think we have made strides forward for women in this century but it could all disappear again so easily.

Jami, I can feel your pain of report writing and I am 5 hours behind the UK so able to poor virtual wine down your throat for the next few hours.

I have so been there with test drives. I now look sales men in the eye and say "this is my car and I will be driving it" then laugh at any stupidity they come out with that proves they weren't listening

One numpty tried telling me that auto locking doors were a safety feature that women liked when in traffic. My reply was a condescending laugh then "I just told you I need a fast car to pull out onto dual carriage way and that I like to do 70 all the way to work. Who will be trying to open my door as I do that? HOwever, my husband drives through town to get to work, so he may be interested"

Woohoo, I've finished that class set of reports . Only one more class to do now, and I think I'll leave that for tomorrow night (who needs to plan lessons or mark books when there are reports to write?).

Car salesmen are really annoying. When I bought my car they kept talking to dp even though we told them right at the start that I would be buying the car, I would be driving the car, and dp doesn't drive! We bought a car from one of the two dealerships that actually spoke to me instead of him (it helps that they had a car I liked at a price we could afford)

I tend to go in alone, so that they can't try talking to dh instead. Actually, I have more time than him for things like that, so I go first, and tell them what I want. They only get to talk to dh by talking to me first.

It was never a deliberate plan, but we have both noticed the overt sexism so often that it is NOW a deliberate plan.

Although, in the US, it tends to be assumed that women deal with household budget & domestic decision more. Why can't we just be accepted as a PARTNERSHIP making a JOINT decision, each of us with equal say?