"Mumsnet hates men"

[AnnieLobeseder]

There's a Facebook page created by some school kids called "shut Mumsnet down cos they hate kids" or some such thing, which is harmless enough.

But they've posted this advert from F4J, which is rather more sinister.

I wasn't aware that it was mandatory to hate men to be a Mumsnetter. I shall have to inform DH at once that he is to leave home and never see the DDs again.

They're rather sad and scary aren't they?

MN is feminist in the sense (with the far and few exceptions of Mnetters who've had really bad experiences imo) that is stands for equality between the sexes. Losing their relative privilege rankles with some F4J men. These are not men most of us would want to have children with- most of us prefer our clever, funny and fair ones. I can see why these particular ones are pissed off- they want the clever, assertive women -because they feel they deserve them- but they won't, on the whole, get them. They're dinosaurs in their opinions and they deserve what they get imo.

Never heard of the buggers.

Capt I agree. He does really hate women.

As Climbingthewalls12 says above, LTB is the automatic reaction of quite a few posters in the Relationships section.

In fact it gets to the point that I don't need to even read a post, I just need to see the poster's name and I know what their advice will be.

Fortunately, there are often one or two calmer posters who take a more considered position. But, the fact remains that there are many regular posters who jump all over threads on the Relationships section pushing a LTB agenda regardless. So I can sort of understand why MN might be seen like this.

This is also one of the reasons why I don't usually post in the Feminism section as, having read quite a few of the threads, a lot of posters here give the impression that they think that most men can do nothing right.

This deters me from adding my voice and I feel largely silenced and intimidated by the a lot of the posters in this section of MN. I wonder how many others feel the same way - or would even feel able to admit this?

Really?

Which posters give the impression they think most men can do nothing right, and how?

I'm always impressed by the way so many posters who claim rarely to post in this section have such a detailed awareness of what goes on, that they seem to see posts I rarely manage to find. Odd, isn't it?

It's not that subtle though, is it? Really?

I think some people read with selective text-blanking software that omits any version of 'patriarchy is bad for men'.

It never ceases to amaze me that there are people out there who sincerely believe that feminists all hate men, because feminists believe men don't actually have a biological imperative to rape and use pornography, or because feminists think men probably can see dirt.

OK, perhaps I over stated it by saying ''a lot'' rather than some.

But when threads dissolve into rants about how we are all abused and live in some terrible patriarchy and men don't understand how ''privileged'' they are then I just totally switch off.

I don't see myself as a victim in any way and I don't see my DH as having had an inherently more privileged life than I've had simply because he has a penis.

I'm always impressed by the way so many posters who claim rarely to post in this section have such a detailed awareness of what goes on

It's sort of like looking at the scene of an accident - you know you shouldn't but there is a sort of horrified fascination.

As to my ''claim'', well you can check and see that the above post is the very first time that I've posted in this section of MN. I usually spend my time in Relationships, Exercise and Education

Even if the Relationships board were being accurately described, which its critics rarely manage, it's hardly a representative sample of anything other than people with serious problems, mostly women, coming to a board for help.

It is a help board for people needing help because they are unfortunate enough to be teamed up with one of the minority of people who are, frequently, worthy of being left.

I think the test of whether the Relationship board was man-hating would be if someone posted to say something like "My DH is kind, caring, treats me as an equal and never tried to bully me", if they got LTB responses then sure, man-hating probably fits. However if they didn't I think we could probably say that it's more bastard-hating than anything.

I loathe bad behaviour whether its men or women behaving badly.

Maybe if instead of 'switching off', you bothered to listen, you'd understand, then?

I love the 'I don't see myself as a victim' bit. Yeah, cos it's obviously all about you and not at all about women as a class, including, you know, the ones who may not be as lucky as you.

I'm sure there are loads of women in Saudi Arabia who wander about saying 'well, I just don't see myself as a victim so now it's all fab! ' too.

buffy - I know this isn't a perfect analogy.

But if we were talking about, say, Dr Who, someone who piped up saying 'how dare you pick holes in this TV show, I think you hate it' would get laughed down. Because everyone knows that it's perfectly possible to love something, and also to get very frustrated with aspects of it - the more so, because you so want it to be great all the time.

Most of us on here like men, are married to them or have male children or whatever. I suppose it's possible there is someone (very, very quiet) who is a regular and who actually thinks all men are incorrigible bastards.

But why would it be worth talking about it if there were? If we really believed it was as simple as 'men are all shit', we wouldn't bother discussing any of it. IMHO.

Meh, silly gasbags with myopic views. Must tell OH I obviously hate him and all other men because I'm an MN member...

I guess for me the easiest way to look at feminist analysis is to also look at racial analysis, in the case of racism I know that as a white woman in this part of the world I am privileged. Acknowledging that doesn't mean I hate all white people, that would be odd. Acknowledging that also doesn't mean I think white people are one big mass of racists, because that is also odd.

Oh, sure ... I get that it's not a perfect analogy. I just reckon that there is more going on that someone genuinely reading a post that says something negative about men and extrapolating from that.

After all, no-one has yet (so far as I've seen) gone onto the chat thread about 'things about your DP than make you say WTF' to tell them they're all man-haters. Because that kind of thing is seen as perfectly acceptable, to whinge about your actual partner. What's not ok is to do it and call yourself a feminist at the same time.

Buffy If a man is assaulted then no he probably wouldn't get asked those questions any more than a woman would - a lot of assaults are down to alcohol. But, I think you're talking more about what women are faced with after a sexual assault.

But, if a man were to be sexually assaulted then he would be subject to all the same sorts of questions and assumptions that a woman would get. It happened to a close friend of mine at university and there is just as much, if not more, stigma attached when a man is sexually assaulted by another man.

Interesting.

I've yet to see the police-sponsored advert aimed at men and guilting them for being drunk targets of rape.

Do direct me to it.

LDR

I love the 'I don't see myself as a victim' bit. Yeah, cos it's obviously all about you and not at all about women as a class, including, you know, the ones who may not be as lucky as you

It's comments like this that I feel are as bad in putting women down as any ''patriarchy'' that radical feminists believe exists.

You are saying that I should subjugate my own needs and desires and put a whole class of people before myself. Aren't you saying in this that my own desires and wants aren't important and so should be disregarded?

If it were a man telling me this - that I should do something for the greater good of womankind and not think so much about myself - I would be telling him where to get off. So why should I accept this sort of thing from a ''feminist''?

I know that as an educated woman with a good job and a happy relationship living in a liberal western country that I am incredibly fortunate compared to a lot of other people.

However, you telling me that it's wrong to want to strive to improve my life and that I should subjugate my needs to the ''class'' struggle is incredibly patronising. Are men the only ones who are allowed to do this and us women shouldn't try and improve our lives?