AIBU to think that if MN are willing to boycott certain groups on ethical grounds

[APartridgeAmongThePigeons]

they really should take a look at banning posters proclaiming themselves MRAs?

Sexist,

often racist,

frequently rape/ domestic violence deniers

I know that mumsnet want to keep a lively discussion going and not ban free speech but when they join a forum mainly used by women it's hard to believe it's not about being goady and spewing propaganda.

The result is that normal posters get angry..
engage...

And then get deleted or banned for "personal attack".

Using a nasty word for someone who has by just stating that they are an MRA has basically said you don't matter as a human seems the normal response.

Sabrina, the extreme MRAs attacking feminist. As is extreme feminists attacking the causes normal men's rights members are doing.

I think you are starting to get it

How does attacking MRAs further feminist causes, Sabrina?

I guess your answer, if my stunning rhetoric didn't leave you speechless , would be that MRAs are attacking feminism, so attacking MRAs is defending women and women's causes.

Except that's the exact thing that MRAs believe, at least the ones who actually believe feminism needs attacking (not all do, most are pretty egalitarian). So both sides attack each other, believing it's self-defense, and nothing of use gets done.

Urban Dictionary - Radical Feminism:

1. A 'current' in feminism that views gender relations and sexism as the direct result of a system of patriarchy and an androcentric (male-centered) society. Radical feminists go beyond critiques of legal systems, and critique the entire culture of gender and sex.

Radical feminism aims to challenge and to overthrow patriarchy by opposing standard gender roles and androcentrism, and calls for a radical reordering of society. These suggestions often include the abolition of gender roles, the support of GLBTQ rights and liberation, the restructuring of the family, and economic changes to end any gendered privileges.

Radical feminism has been around for a long time, but really began to developed into its current form during the Second Wave of feminism, and further evolved with the Third Wave, in which feminists began to explore the way sexism affects and is affected by other forms of antagonism and oppression, such as class and race.

Bit more accurate, that one

That does leave me pretty speechless, yes, Sue.

Treen - are you trying to make out that the MRM is reasonable? I thought you didn't know enough about it to answer a simple question?

"Attacking feminism will not stop men committing crimes, attacking each other or not doing as well in school."

And attacking MRAs won't stop the wage gap, FGM, or an unrepresentative Parliament, but here we all are anyway.

Why don't the MRAs and feminists, excluding the extreme sections of each, get on with what they want to. Stop all this fighting and lying.

No Sabrina, I didn't want to speak for a group I am not a member of. That's all

No, we're just trying to stop them putting what is basically hate speech against women all over MN.

isn't this backing and forth ing exactly the problem?

you will find as many definitions good and bad as you find feminists. I suspect the same is true of men's groups.

which is exactly why banning I whole group is impractical amd massively wrong.

disagree with the opinions. tell them why report those that break the rules ban individuals

When you defend them, you are speaking up for them, treen. Why are you defending them?

I'm sorry sabrina but much of what has gone on this thread is what's wrong with mumsnet.

treen has expressed an opinion (the extreme does not represent the whole) she has then been labelled a MRA and told to defend them. how does that even work?

I think like all extreme groups the MRAs make a few fair points of areas where the law or society does treat men less equally than men: (parental rights/boys level of attainment at school/assumptions in DV cases), which shouldn't be ignored and do need to be addressed. Some feminists (like me) believe in equality for all and feel that any injustices need to be fought against.

But they then extend the argument to further their misogynistic agenda.

By banning them it adds credence to their belief that they are mistreated, adding to their indignation. Giving more power to their argument that men are treated poorly.

Sabrina, I'm defending them because you think they have one voice, one mindset, one viewpoint. You judge a group by its most extreme and make out that is the norm.
I assume you don't think this for feminists.

You don't think there are any sub-groups or branches within the movement. You are deliberately being misleading.

This type of lying will only inflame both movements

it is perfectly possible to dislike something or disagree with it without feeling the need to ban it

A lot of those issues have a lot to do with men themselves. Male violence, attitudes towards education and the attitudes of men towards each other. Feminism is about the attitudes of men towards women. Men need to help themselves and to change their attitudes. There is some commonality with feminism - especially with the expectations of men as providers. That's the patriarchy. But so much of that is not men's rights but the way men act. It does not need omen to change their attitudes. It needs men to change.

Very well said Kim, if you really want change for men you work with in the current social power structure (that is mostly male) and gets things dealt with you don't need to shout at women for trying to improve their lot as it has fuck all to do with them... unless what you really want is a blow job and a sandwich.

Paperlantern, it is not unreasonable to ask a poster to explain the rationale underpinning the opinions they express.

but she didn't actually express support for MRA. it was assumed she did

treen, I would appreciate if you would stop accusing me of lying. I am going by the websites that the mra themselves link to. To supposedly 'educate' us.

"you don't need to shout at women for trying to improve their lot as it has fuck all to do with them"

Is there an emoticon for "can you really not see the hypocrisy?" I guess is closest.

the problem is the label. I have no problem with someone labelling themselves as something. but labelling another person as something is dangerous and wrong.

Sabrina, sorry, I did realise you were using one extreme website.
You have to be selective, you can be mislead. There are some websites out there misrepresenting feminism, Islam, etc.

again can't see where treen accuses you of lying

Is there an emoticon for [doesn't get it] suelford?

Because if you think historically men (as a class) aren't responsible for women's current position in society I can't really have a discussion with you.. because what would be the point?

And for what it is worth... I don't go on to MRA website to troll, I try and not to engage with them at all. Let them wank all over each others tales of woe due to awful feminist but they don't need to be here in a mostly female space telling us how we are disenfranchising them despite having no real political power.