The overprotective Daddy culture. (No ones good enough for my little girl)

[bumpandkind]

Wasn't sure where to post this but it's something that annoys me greatly and I haven't seen it discussed on here before. (Apologies if it has been).

I was just listening to the new Robbie Williams song. For those of you who don't tune into shit FM it's the good Mr Williams singing to his daughter about how the world is a big scary place full of evil men and he as her Dad will protect her from all this forever.

I may be over sensitive but this smacks of subverted mysoginy and possession of women/girls within the family. It is still very socially acceptable that a good Dad is overprotective of 'his little princess' till the day she marries her prince, (fully approved by Daddy of course).

It's something I never experienced as my Dad has always respected mine and all my sisters right to make our own decisions ( poor mans outnumbered!). However my DH was recently relived when we had a Ds not a Dd as in his own words ' I couldn't cope with looking after two girls, I'd be so worried about her'. This comment did not go unpunished!

So opinions please?

I imagine that as a dad the awareness of what could happen to your daughter could be overwhelming ...... not sure about the 'subverted misogyny' tbh.

I read a blog post a few weeks back which was "I hope my daughter has lots of great sex". It was all about a Dad saying that he hoped his daughter met decent men who treated her well, rather than shielding her away as if she was an object to be protected, with no mind or will of her own. It was about letting his daughter make her own mistakes, whilst hoping she didn't make any. I can't find it again and everytime I try and google, you can imagine the kind of links that are popping up.

Definitely noticed this, although I haven't heard that song. It seems to be especially big in America - I've heard lots of stories of boyfriends going to pick up the girl for their first date, and their dad is coincidentally cleaning his gun at the same time, or writes their name on a bullet, or other various weird, threatening, possessive behaviour.

I wouldn't look to a Robbie Williams song for any worthwhile philosophical guidance, nor any parenting advice. I mean, do you believe in angels? Good for weddings and bar mitzvahs though.

I understand both parents simply want the best for their children but men are portrayed as not giving a flying fuck about their sons experiences with women/men who might not be suitable in their opinion as its all about the human experience. Whereas their daughters have to be guided through the relationship jungle as if they are incapable of making the right decisions and will be manipulated so easily by that cunning opposite sex. ( of course sometimes the case but we all live and learn).

Not sure if I dare type that into a search engine worldgonecrazy but it sounds a refreshing view.

Soz, Buf, you are the only one allowed to make jokes here

I have a son and a daughter. How the world wishes to portray my concerns about either is something I can do little about. This is an old trope. A bit like boys being tied to mum's apron strings, her little soldier, nobody good enough for her son etc. Does anyone remember Brenda and Malcolm from the sitcom 'Watching' in the 90's? She was a common as muck scouse girl, he was a nice boy from the Wirral.

These things hang around in popular culture, but if you look at the number of girls/women going away to university, jetting off on hen do's and holidays on the lash, you can see that it really doesn't hold sway in UK society any more.

Wow.

I think these stereotypes have more to do with us having less knowledge about the opposite gender than our own, hence the mother/son father/daughter dynamic.

Men who think "no man is good enough for my little girl" make me think that they must be a bit of a crap husband/partner themselves.

Otherwise they would be aware that some men are good partners.

If they just think that many men are crap, and that women are generally on the receiving end of the crapness, then that's fair enough, but the sensible response is to teach her how to recognise the crapness and how to deal with it and avoid men who are like that.

Exactly Buffy, it seem s almost expected of a father and used to portray what a good Dad he is. If a mother or MIL expresses similar protective feeling she is open to scorn and derision, oh sorry I mean gentle humour ( which I took the wrong way as I'm a pube braiding, rank ol feminist)!

Biggedy - these opinions may seem harmless and outdated but I still think they can be dangerous as they can creep into a young woman's mind and condition her to be directed by a man in the most personal of choices.

A feminist may sit her daughter down and show her cold, hard statistics about the likelihood of her being sexually assaulted/raped, abused in the street or harassed by a man in a bar. How does a man respond without incurring criticism for being overbearing?

If Katy Melua or Tori Amos wrote a song about such concerns, would you be as concerned?

The best example a dad sets is how he treats his daughter's mum. If your daughter sees a loving,respectful relationship at home, that is the standard she will judge men by. Not an axe by the front door.

I think this attitude is often tied in with a tacit acceptance (by the same men) that men can be utter disrespectful shits to women. It's the mentality that sees a man not complaining/objecting to use of porn (because the women in it are somehow subhuman?) but at the same time not be

Aggh!
At the same time being totally unable to comprehend how his own daughter can exist in the same conceptual universe as the woman getting spit roasted on his iPhone screen. Like Trills said, if you insist on fully respectful behaviour from men at all times towards women - and know that this is not some kind of unrealistic gold standard - then you have nothing to fear for your daughters.

It feels like an ownership/control issue to me. As Buffy says, it's fine for men to joke about not letting their daughters out alone until they're 25, whereas mothers who said the same about their sons would be pilloried.

Okay, so I was wrong. Feminists don't do that. Apologies. Does anyone here ever discuss the stuff that come up on here with their daughters? DV, sexual assault/rape, everyday sexism? Or is it something a girl becomes aware of for herself as she grows up? Stats like 1 in 4 women being subject to DV.

I would answer your question Biggedy, but since the thread is not about that I would be helping to derail it, I am sure everyone would be happy for you to start a thread about the mother/daughter dynamic though.

OP I agree, it is about ownership IMO and harks back to the days when a woman was her fathers possession until she married and he literally gave her (and her virginity) away on her wedding day.

And of course it ties into those creepy purity/chastity balls in the USA where 12 year old girls get dressed up, attend as their fathers 'dates' and publicly swear to be a good little virgin until they marry (and to hand over their virginity to their father for safe keeping). Creepy as fuck if you ask me.

A girls/woman's sexuality belongs to no one but herself.

*Men who think "no man is good enough for my little girl" make me think that they must be a bit of a crap husband/partner themselves.

Otherwise they would be aware that some men are good partners.*

I knew a guy when I was a teenager who said he hoped he never had a daughter because he'd have to kill any boyfriends she might have. I strongly suspect the reason he thought this way was because of his own experience as a young male and how he treated the women in his life (not a nice guy). He has daughters now.

The best way for a father to protect his daughters is to show her a good example by treating his wife/partner/mother of daughter well. That way she is less likely to choose one of the bad ones he'd want to protect her from.

Being overprotective of girls and not worrying so much about your boys is also tied into victim blaming.

Instead of thinking, "I must put a lot of time and effort into helping my son become a decent human being", it's "I must protect my girl from the sexual dominance and violence of boys". The actions of boys and men is seen as uncontrollable and out of our hands.

So instead of trying to influence it, we prepare for the fallout of their actions - because boys are free agents and girls are not.

" if you insist on fully respectful behaviour from men at all times towards women - and know that this is not some kind of unrealistic gold standard - then you have nothing to fear for your daughters."

this is the sort of thing that is bringing me out in a rash these days. I know it is meant well, and it is based on the realistic truth of the converse (if you are a shit to women, you have direct experience of shittiness to women, and this induces fear). but it is so whistling-in-the-dark, never-say-die UNTRUE. you can be as nice as you like and instil whatever lovely values you like but there are still hatey bastards out there. I keep reading jolly hearty things on here about how all will be well if we all be nice and hang out around nice people and don't be aggressive back and be all jolly hockey sticks and I can't help but feel really dark and twisted and moody about it because it is so very very very very close to victim-blaming, and so hearty and positive and ugh

I long to be hearty and positive, of course, as you can guess. I am just eaten up with weariness and envy.

what this dynamic is about is men relating primarily to each other and women being pawns or symbols within their dynamic. So the man cleaning his gun when the young man comes round is asserting his status by saying "the beautiful trophy belongs to me. know your place or I will be violent." Later, if they young couple marry, the "giving away" is a strong show that the older man has not been unseated from his silverback status by choosing to give the beautiful trophy to the young man. au contraire, it is implicit that the young man has sucked up enough and reinforced the silverback's status to an extent that makes him suitable to receive this award, and be considered among his loyal clansmen / juniors