Can I ask you for some links about porn please?

[EhricLovesTeamQhuay]

Specifically accounts of ex porn actors talking about abuse/coercion in porn films, and anything academic about the effects of porn on male sexuality and sexual attitudes?

I've read bits, but I'm already convinced. This is for a friend whose new boyfriend doesn't get it and she feels like she doesn't have the evidence to show him.
Thanks

I really don't understand why people feel determined to argue that anti-porn people only want gentle missionary sex.

It's slightly bewildering.

And terribly dishonest SGB, you have discussed this on here for years and you know it's not true, anymore than it's true to say that pro-porn people are a bunch of dysfunctional screaming perverts.

Why are you so invested in pretending that being anti-porn is just an updated version of sex-hating Mary Whitehouse type primness?

I suspect because she has a vested interest in porn. And straw man arguments are very effective silencing techniques.

Solid, I'm still interested in hearing how anti-porn people can earn more money by being anti-porn than someone working in the sex industry.

emcwill74
^No idea what I'm on about AngryLib or FrankDancer or whatever you're called? Oh sorry, did I make a massive assumption there? Honestly the FWR board is becoming like a game of Where's John Ridgely! Try another name! Go on! Let me have another go!
^
Instead of trying to accuse me of being someone else, how about you actually contribute to this interesting debate we are having? Or do you not believe in debate? Or is it that you believe people with opposing views shoudln't be allowed on here?

Solid, I'm still interested in hearing how anti-porn people can earn more money by being anti-porn than someone working in the sex industry

Maybe something like this?

www.amazon.co.uk/Pornland-How-Porn-Hijacked-Sexuality/dp/0807001546/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382616277&sr=8-1&keywords=gail+dines

Gail Dines does not earn lots of money from publishing a very well researched book that will have taken her a long time to research and write. She also spends lots of time giving talks about porn, all around the world. She is rarely paid for these.

The reality is some try to rubbish her because she has written a very well researched book which exposes the reality of the porn industry.

Yes I believe in debate, I just don't have much to add to what other posters have said. I have already stated I think the ubiquity of porn (and particularly on the internet), which seems to me to be a growth industry, is problematic, and specifically for young women for reasons that have repeatedly been voiced. As I have already stated I don't have any solutions to offer up. Of course people with opposing views to mine should be allowed on here; it's PBPs I'm not so sure about.

I agree with Iceland's approach to ban all violent porn. It is no coincidence that it is officially recognised to be the best country for women to live in.

Basil
And terribly dishonest SGB, you have discussed this on here for years and you know it's not true, anymore than it's true to say that pro-porn people are a bunch of dysfunctional screaming perverts.

Really? that's not the impressions i am getting at all from what's been said on this thread. The pro porn people have even been accused of being more likely to have sexually transmitted diseases, and that they would have to pay for sex as no one would ever want to date them because of their porn habbits.

I do find it odd that people will claim they are all cool about sex and different sexaulites but then go all voyeur phobic when porn is involved.

Read it again Frank. All the posts.

And try to respond without the snide digs.

Or...don't bother. that would work too.

I notice, by the way, that the pro porn camp always carefully avoid the points about the exploitation of women involved in making porn. Presumably because they are all either paid mega bucks, or do it because they love sex so much, or just find it such a convenient way to earn money to fund their PhDs?

I just wanted to say thanks to the people who posted the links on the first page.
I started reading the rest of the comments but it just got into an argument about whether porn is harmful and exploitative or not.

So I'm going to add to that . . .

Just read some comments by people kidding themselves about the damage of pornography. Even if it did you no harm watching it and you just thought it benefitted you, surely you would consider the men and women used to make it, clearly there are problems with making porn. Even if you thought most women are enjoying the sex performed they are filmed, surely you would think it's reasonable to think this isn't what happens in some cases
'what if I am watching someone who is being abused?' 'What if this damages societies attitudes to women?'

Seriously who hasn't even considered this, or has but thinks this is ok for their pleasure?

Seriously who hasn't even considered this

This is the problem - most people that watch porn don't give it a second thought - same as they don't worry about the actors in a TV Sitcom or Hollywood Blockbuster.

They assume it's all "willing" actors who would quit if they wanted to.

I notice, by the way, that the pro porn camp always carefully avoid the points about the exploitation of women involved in making porn."

I think you have labelled me pro porn - therefore if you look back at previous posts I think you will find I did address this point. If that was the only objection to porn ethical porn would solve that, in fact homemade porn made yourself will resolve that. We have laws against rape and assault, we need to look at why these are not made use of when appropriate and the perpetrators not locked up with the key thrown away.

"For what, though? What's illegal in the scenario of a teenage girl feeling that an act that she feels a bit uncomfortable about but is assured by lots of social cues is 'normal' and she isn't normal and cool if she doesn't allow it. If she agrees, whatever the consequences for her emotional and even physical health, what has happened isn't technically illegal.

For exactly this purpose. By banning one thing we are sending out the message that another is ok. The most vanilla missionary sex can be wrong if it feels wrong to you, even a touch or a kiss. It is this feeling of wrongness that we should listen to, not an arbitrary outside judgement.

No not easy to impart, not easy to learn but absolutely the most essential thing in the world to get to grips wit.

For what is worth I am not exactly Pro-porn, I think it is very problematic but not for the reasons given here (which no one can tell me why for) I can chose not to consume it. that is the benefit of a free society

*"And try to respond without the snide digs.

Or...don't bother. that would work too."*
This would suggest that any opposing arguments are not welcome.

oh and is rather snide

for what it's worth I have big issues with homemade porn. but it does resolve the problem of knowing whether the participants are enjoying it

"I have big issues with homemade porn. but it does resolve the problem of knowing whether the participants are enjoying it"

No it doesn't.

You don't actually know if someone is enjoying it. You don't know if it's 100% consensual, you don't know if one of the parties is aware of it, you don't know if there's subtle coercion... etc.

It doesn't really solve the problem of whether the participants are enjoying it IMO.

I do not avoid the issue of the exploitation of some porn performers. It's the big (and only real) problem with the porn industry - which is also a problem widespread among other industries. I just don't think that banning porn is the way to solve the problem. I would argue for unionization of porn performers and the general promotion of 'fair trade' porn.

As to making more money from anti-porn activism, I was speaking for myself, not Hugh Hefner: I have very little money and have gained the impression that the likes of Gail Dines, Julie Bindel and Shelly Lubben are probably not on sodding housing benefit...

"t's the big (and only real) problem with the porn industry - which is also a problem widespread among other industries. I just don't think that banning porn is the way to solve the problem"

So what is the way to solve the problem then?

It's not the only real problem of the porn industry at all. It is one of them. Plenty of others have been discussed on this thread.

"if you think the chippendales has any relevance to this discussion...."

one of the arguments against female porn was the representation of unrealistic women's bodies.

Does that same not apply to men and the chippendales? yet I don't see either men or women up in arms to ban that. or airbrushing in photos yet this represents an unrealistic image of woman's bodies and is widespread