Overweight issue - debate

[DSM]

I've been thinking about this a bit recently, with the 'fat shaming' (which, as any other kind of 'shaming', is vile) and I have a couple of Facebook friends who have posted articles where basically they are justifying being overweight by using the 'my body my choice' line.

I'm conflicted.

First, I absolutely am a feminist and absolutely agree that no person should have to conform to any societal ideal, on anything.

However, I don't think it is 'okay' to be obese, and I don't think it should necessarily be a feminist issue. Both men and women who are obese are unhealthy. Fit people are not obese. I realise, it is not always a choice and there are a lot of people for whom obesity is a medical issue (my sister is one of them) but I certainly wouldn't expect those people to encourage others to be obese, or not tackle their obesity, by affiliating it alongside other feminist principles.

Thoughts?

Umm gosh Basil, that certainly raises a lot of questions!

I don't think people 'should be' happy, actually. Apart from anything else, we all have unhappy periods in life; that's part of what makes us human and we often learn a lot from them. Some people have had difficult lives and find happiness very hard to achieve; surely sympathy is the only humane response here?

Some people quite clearly prefer to be miserable long term. I may personally think it's a shame and rather counter-productive but hey, it's their choice. I try to restrain my judgemental tendencies, except when it comes to people who treat other people like shit.

I really struggle with the 'reclaiming' of obesity too. But then, if I was
subject to hate speech because of the way I look, I'd probably want to reclaim it too.

I feel I have to quote Caitlin Moran here (aware that doesn't always go down well ) but this is one of those situations where you really do have to say 'are the men doing it?'

And I'd say they pretty much are not. And I think the reason for that is most overweight women are judged for 'not being sexually attractive fat' rather than 'unhealthy fat'. I think it's one of those situations though when you start to unpick it, you start to say 'well, why are people obese' and the answer on a very facile level is 'they've made a choice' but they haven't really, not a truly free choice.

Often as a woman the only thing you can control is your body.
Or you don't have economic power to pay for other people to take care of it for you.
Or you are stuck childrearing, you hate it, so you eat.
I know I personally am an emotional eater - so why isn't there another way to express my emotions?

Lots of reasons for being overweight which are feminist issues.

But I'm still not sure where I stand on 'obese and proud'

LOL at people preferring to be miserable Mooncup.

Do they prefer it? Or do they have a choice? Would they rather be happy?

When I say "should" I mean I think it's better. Not that they "should" in the sense of being told to pull themselves together and be happy/ slim/ fit/ healthy/ rich/ organised/ tidy/ insert your preferred desirable trait here and put on some sort of NHS programme to force them to conform to whatever it is the rest of society decides they "should" be (or is better for them/ us).

Of course you're right, it's no -one else's business if someone chooses to be fat/ unhealthy/ messy etc. and it would be wrong to hector or lecture of otherwise offer your unsolicited advice on their unhappiness/ fatness/ unfitness etc. but we also don't need to support it and say this is a Good Thing, let's all celebrate.

If they want to celebrate, then fine, it would be crassly obnoxious to gate crash the party. But equally, we don't have to attend.

By the way I should make clear that I am not necessarily all the things I think is better for human beings to be. Particularly the rich bit, dammit.

I wouldn't advocate hating or harassing obese people. Not in the least. In fact, one argument I had recently with someone was that he believed that harassing obese people would encourage them to lose weight, stopping this harassment would make them think it was okay to be so overweight. I absolutely disagreed.

My issue, solely, is appropriating obesity as a feminist issue.

There are lots of reasons for being overweight, whether they are feminist issues or not I wouldn't necessarily agree (I don't see why men wouldn't eat for emotional reasons, why they wouldn't be stuck childrearing etc - these are not exclusively womens issues) and being told fat = ugly is not acceptable, IMO.

But saying it is okay to be obese because women are free to do as they like, is no different from saying 'women can be heroin addicts', because they are allowed such autonomy, as women in the feminist movement.

YES that is a good summarisation.

I don't care if they want to celebrate their obesity. I don't mind that at all, it does not affect me.

But I do mind when I am made to feel less of an all inclusive feminist, because I find it hard to support something that is fundamentally bad for the person in question.

I just don't see 'reclaiming obesity' as either a legitimate, or a feminist, movement.

The thing is it has nothing to do with you if someone is obese. For you to say it's not ok is a judgement. There is no morality in weight.
Thin does not mean healthy and fat does not mean unhealthy. But again even if someone isn't at the optimum of health it is nothing to do with you!

It's strange how we don't see threads like this about smoking...

I agree whenthered - but much the same as someone who is cleverer not having to work as hard as someone who is less clever; those with naturally faster metabolisms don't have to work as hard to stay at a healthy weight than those whose are slower. Women, generally, have to work harder than men to gain muscle mass, due to lower levels of testosterone. But they can, they just need to work harder.

So it may be natural to put on weight more easily than another person, but then surely the person who was not blessed with a fast metabolic rate, just has to work harder at maintaining their health?

I disagree with obesity rates being heightened in poverty on account of cheap food, I believe that this statistic is more to do with a lack of education in impoverished areas. You can eat pasta and rice and homemade sauce and far cheaper than high fat foods and ready meals.

Overweight people are entitled to respect and freedom from discrimination. That is not the issue I am talking about.

I am talking about reclaiming obesity as a feminist issue.

If smokers tried to reclaim their right not to be harassed about smoking, and said it was a feminist stance, I would take great issue with that.

Thin does not mean healthy. Fat does not mean unhealthy. But obesity is not healthy, there are no two ways about that. As I have said before, it is NOT my business and I do NOT care if someone is obese!

But, I do care with obesity acceptance becoming a part of feminist inclusion. Because, it is not healthy and should not be promoted as an equal right issue.

Smoking isn't gendered though but weight is. Women are judged so much more on their appearance so that makes it part of feminism. If women experience sexually degrading remarks and assaults due to their weight then ofc the weight of a woman is a feminist issue and that's true whether she is obese or anorexic.

I don't know that I agree with that, tbh.

Men and women are equally degraded for their body size. Obese men aren't socially acceptable.

Women being judged in their appearance, feminist issue.
Women being judged for being obese, not feminist issue.

If it becomes sexually degrading, then yes, in hat instance it has come back to feminism. But in the grand scheme of the obesity issue, I don't think its feminists to claim.

I would majorly disagree that men are as degraded for their body size as women are.

DSM with all due respect the events on Twitter last night prove you wrong.

Take a look at the fat shaming thread i started on here "Fat shaming week on twitter...apparently" and click on the link in my OP There is twitter account specially set up to "celebrate" fat shaming week and on the picture in that account it says No fat CHICKS

And there are plenty of similar anecdotes on the Everyday Sexism website.

now this fat shaming week has been set up because these mysogynists are annoyed that these women do not meet their realms of fuckability. It has NOT been done to help women with their health

Whilst I absolutely agree that thin does not equal healthy, I definitely agree that obese does equal unhealthy. They are not opposites, they are standalone issues. I think one of the problems society has with size is assuming they are opposing, and they aren't.

One cannot be obese and be fit and healthy. Overweight, yes, but not obese.

If treating fat people adversely is a feminist issue, then how do we fit men into this?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1877480-Fat-shaming-week-on-twitter-apparently

You absolutely can be obese and healthy. There was quite allot of press about it this week. Let me get a link for you.

And there are plenty of similar anecdotes on the Everyday Sexism website

What i mean by this is that there have been plenty of women who have experienced this sort of mysogyny and have posted their stories on the site

http://jezebel.com/healthy-obese-is-possible-but-maybe-not-forever-1442942724

ive been "working hard" for the last two months DSM and have only lost half a stone I power walk every day and today tried running (see linked thread) and have been going to SW for the last month.

Your comments are triggering.

Ive read the fat shaming stuff. It's what got me thinking (as some friends had also posted about it on Facebook)

There is a big difference between someone being over the 'ideal size' that the misogynists who run those campaigns are shaming, and people being downright obese.

People who are obese seem to be jumping on board with the perfectly-acceptably-sized-but-shamed-for-being-fat people who this shit is aimed at, and that's my issue.

They are not the same thing.

I would 100% back any feminist campaign against the shaming of overweight women. I am not comfortable when that then includes people who are morbidly obese, as I do not think they should be appropriating such an unhealthy size with feminism.

I don't know how I can be proved wrong - I don't entirely have an opinion on this! I've said from the start that I am conflicted between being against societal conformation, and 'promoting' a very unhealthy way of living.

I said the that people with slower metabolisms need to work harder to maintain a healthy weight than those with faster metabolisms.

Please don't paraphrase what I said.

I would never, ever suggest someone can lose weight if they 'work hard'.

I see what you mean, Basil; more like 'in an ideal world everyone would be healthy and happy' rather than 'people who aren't healthy and happy should bloody well get a grip'. Can't argue with that.

I think posters are conflating 'being obese is OK' with actual obese pride. I support the former but think obese pride is a bit misguided, if understandable in the curren fat-hating climate.

Who is "promoting" an unhealthy way of living. Those pricks were saying that obese is when a womans thighs touch.
My thighs touched when i was a size 12 Now what if someone sees their ridiculous tweets/comments and it triggers an ED.

I agree - people are confusing the issue.

It is okay to be obese.
it is not okay to promote obesity as a feminist issue.

That is, I think, how I feel.