The Feminist Pub is Open - Chat, Rant, or pull up a chair here!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

This thread started when we all decided to imagine what the perfect local for feminists would be like. So far, it has taps with plenty of good real ale, and some decent non-alcoholic alternatives too. There are comfy chairs and there's a feminist film night, as well as lots of nice feminist-friendly books on the shelves and space to curl up and read. The open-mic nights are attracting feminist singers and comedians, and we're just sorting out the feminist creche.

Please come along, draw up a stool, and have a good chat about whatever you fancy - as serious or as trivial as you like.

For starters, I have a half-pint of lemonade. What can I get anyone?

I have issues with Pussy Riot as well.

I like this analysis of them.

radicalhubarchives.wordpress.com/tag/pussy-riot/

Always interesting to hear the other side LRD.

I think what impressed me was the bravery and strength of those women in taking action on what they hold dear regardless of the personal consequences.

I would like to think that if I saw a programme about the bravery and strength of the women in the orthodox church when the state was against it,I would have a similar level of respect.

I'd love to know what you think of the programme.

Ghost - Yes, politics of breastfeeding. It's a book by Gabrielle Palmer. She did a webchat on here ages ago I seem to remember. You might still be able to find it.

I want Gok Wan to come back for a webchat

YY, I saw that grennie, and I agree.

Annoyingly, my computer is still dead and I've no idea how to watch stuff on this one (though I do seem to have adapted to the keyboard being a different size). But I will watch before long.

Of course thank you.

I struggled with the intellectualised language of that analysis Grennie. (I like plain english....).

It's not the impression I got listening to the women in this programme.
The women are performance artists,and as such,their words and actions will always be read and interpreted in different ways, I suppose.

Don't know.There's clearly more layers to this than first meets the eye.

Still,my respect for them remains.

Oh, I think there rae definitely layers. I'm not comfortable with pretty much any situation with women on both sides of it turning into a straight 'right and wrong' issue. Same with Femen. I don't like what they do and the message it sends; I don't like that they are strongly tied to male leaders. But nor do I want to spend time making individual women involved feel awful, because I can see how they might have got to that place and felt it gave them a voice.

I think that the word I am looking for when it comes to my feminism,is autonomy.I don't know that I definitely need to fully agree with the minutae of Pussy Riots message or the take on it in the analysis that grennie linked to!

You're right,I think, LRD.

Within my feminism,at least,we all have a different voice towards a common goal.

I don't know if I am right or wrong here. But I don't think that there always is a common goal, not in the short term. But I think even if I disagree with someone really strongly (and I don't disagree with Pussy Riot really strongly), I still have a duty to acknowledge they are people too, and women too, and they're motivated by the same struggles we all are.

I think it's possible to acknowledge that and be humane to people, without always feeling we all have to respond the same way or interpret everything the same way.

(I am possibly splitting hairs there!)

I still have a duty to acknowledge they are people too,and women too,and they're motivated by the same struggles we all are

This^^

Well put!

Thanks!

I was reading something - not about this particular debate, but about feminism - where someone I really respected was saying how she gets angry with fence-sitters. And I really struggled with that to be honest. It did make me think why I find the idea a bit crap. I honestly don't think there are always really simple answers that make it impossible to sympathise with other women.

Isn't it disturbing, actually? With issues that affect men, like rape or custody of children, we're constantly being told we need to be flexibile and accept there are lots of different perspectives. But within feminism, we're somehow assumed to be all speaking with once voice and never disagreeing. I think it is just a tool to make us all shut up, frankly.

Anyhow,my apologies,I completely barged in on the discussion about the politics of breastfeeding.

I always get gobby after a pint of Stella and don't know when to zip it

You didn't barge it at all, you silly woman!

That's the whole point of this thread - I wanted to start something where we could just barge in, because people always complain that it's hard to find somewhere to just chat or ask questions. And I figured having regulars sitting round a bar might work.

Also, you know, I suppress deep desires to be landlady of the Queen Vic. It's true.

Sorry x post LRD.

Yes,I think it's a tool that has been used for a long time. We are not a membership group.Nor a political party.

I think it can make some women a little scared to make their voice heard.

In case they're saying the wrong thing.Or not toeing the feminist line.

Because they are told feminists are this,that and the other. And they're not a good feminist if they get it 'wrong'....

Yes, it's meant to be like a pub chat. You know, overlapping conversations, random diversions, sudden changes of direction, bits petering out and other bits starting.

Oh, I have found a number of things Pussy Riot did over the years (before their arrest) really rather distasteful and struggled to see how their activism was 'feminist' or 'revolutionary'.
My feelings towards them are a bit like the old chestnut "I might disagree with your opinions but I'll defend to the death your right to express them" or similar

I positively like how this thread meanders... .

I LIKE this pub!

Oops, I didn't even realize that was a cross-post!

I'm now picturing us standing with slopping pints, some random blokes jogging our elbows, as we try to make ourselves heard over the (shit) music ... and I'm thinking, no, I prefer the feminist pub.

I am not capable of any kind of reasoned discussion as I had more than I would normally on a school.. work night .

This is a great establishment.
No chucking out time either

I'm not terribly reasoned either, as I'm having to wait until DH is in to watch bake-off, and I shall have to pretend to him I never got spoilered on the net.

I can only do that by forgetting everything about everything.

I'm generally not capable of any reasoned discussion anyhows pacific.

If people start using long words,I'm buggered. Especially after a pint.

But I like a sing song when I'm tiddly so that's ok

Come on then Squeak. What are you going to lead us in a rousing chorus of?

[hic]

I don't get GBBO, sorry. But you enjoy, LRD, you enjoy.

Squeak, growing up my DB used to hit me any time I threatened to sing [sob]

I just flush and talk too much when I'm half-cut
And overuse emoticons

Shit. I've just remembered - I still have washing to hang up. Joy.