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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

OK. Please can we talk about women raping men?

337 replies

curlew · 04/09/2013 10:53

It's a key part of the MRA agenda. Some MRA even say that men are as often victims of rape by women as women are of rape by men.

I absolutely agree that sex should always be consensual,and if a man has been forced, by either physical or psychological means into sex, then he has been raped and deserved of course to be taken seriously, and for the perpetrator to be charged and ,nif found guilty, convicted. And I know that an erection is a physiological response, and does not necessarily mean that a man actually wants to have sex.

But the MRA are full of stories of men waking up after falling asleep drunk at parties to find women on top of them. And vqriations on th them of being forced to penetrate against their will. And, it might just be my misandry showing, but really? Does this happen a lot? Is it a really serious problem that needs to be addressed, and have equivilant resources given to it?

OP posts:

SinisterSal · 04/09/2013 23:54

what do you mean Sunshine401?

sunshine401 · 05/09/2013 00:08

SinisterSal

Sorry? About what?

SinisterSal · 05/09/2013 00:09

what things do women go around saying?

It's late - I probably am missing the point of your post

BitBewildered · 05/09/2013 00:12

bitbewlidered I am not sure why you looked at that data and concluded that men were under-reporting massively as opposed to women, rather than concluding that less women commit sex offences?

Sorry, I totally misread your question! I don't think men massively under report, although I think under reporting definitely happens. I absolutely think that women commit these offences much, much less than men.

sunshine401 · 05/09/2013 00:15

Just some of the things from previous posts, not just women who say them either.

"Men cannot be raped"
"But men are stronger than women"

just as examples.

SinisterSal · 05/09/2013 00:17

Oh ok.
Thanks

sunshine401 · 05/09/2013 00:17

I understand the definition of rape and all that. However when talking about men suffering abuse, within the first few comments it is focused on the word phrasing. Just speaks volumes to me is all.

scallopsrgreat · 05/09/2013 00:20

Nobody on this thread has said men can't be raped.

And generally men are stronger than women. It is no coincidence that in the awful experiences on this thread of women sexually assaulting men that men have been in a position that is weaker than than the woman e.g. asleep, very drunk, drugged or as a child. Force does come into sexual assault and rape regardless of sex.

SinisterSal · 05/09/2013 00:23

Why? It's a valid point I would have thought. Especially on a topic like this there's an argument that you should define the terms so everyone is on the same page.
there has been nothing but sympathy and understanding towards male victims on this thread. There has been no minimisation or belittling towards victims at all.

Original poster

curlew · 05/09/2013 07:08

I think this is a very new idea for many people. It's OK to not understand and to ask questions.

OP posts:

Twibble · 05/09/2013 07:35

Hello, I am still here. Just a quick point regarding the use of physical force when a woman rapes a man. In my case, it was the very fact that I was so much bigger and stronger than her stopped me using force.

I just couldn't bring myself to use physical force toward someone smaller and weaker than me, even when she was raping me. Which is kind of darkly comic when you think about it. I still couldn't bring myself to potentially hurt a woman physically even when she was assaulting me.

Probably social conditioning or benevolent sexism or something.

Original poster

curlew · 05/09/2013 08:31

"I just couldn't bring myself to use physical force toward someone smaller and weaker than me, even when she was raping me. Which is kind of darkly comic when you think about it. I still couldn't bring myself to potentially hurt a woman physically even when she was assaulting me.

Probably social conditioning or benevolent sexism or something."

Social conditioning yes. Another example of how the "patriarchy" is bad for both men and women. Benevolent sexism? No such thing.

I am so sorry this happened to you- and you are very brave to talk about it in here. Could I ask a question about what happened, or would that be too intrusive?

OP posts:

fuzzpig · 05/09/2013 08:46

DH never fought back either. He is very anti-violence (having been brought up by a severely abusive mother, which no doubt conditioned him to end up with an abusive wife too).

There is also the fact that had he defended himself, he could have ended up getting arrested as more likely to leave a mark (him being stronger than ex) - I would've thought that is a common reason for men not fighting back.

Original poster

curlew · 05/09/2013 08:54

I think that the question many people are scared to ask is this. In a situation were a man is not drunk or drugged, and unless the woman is bigger and stronger than him, would it not be possible to hold a woman off, or push her away? I am strong for a woman, but I know that there is no way I could physically force my partner to penetrate me. I could coerce him, I could make threats which would make him do it, I might even be able to shame him or guilt trip him into it. But I couldn't physically force him into it.

OP posts:

Twibble · 05/09/2013 09:33

Hi curlew, I'm not really that brave - it was a while ago and as I say it freaked me out for a while but then time moves on and you move with it. I really only brought it back to mind when I saw this thread.

Going into too much detail seems a bit creepy but in essence it was - we had had a bit of a tired and emotional day. We were in bed together and she was hassling me for sex but I insisted it wasn't going to happen because I didn't feel in the right frame of mind at all. She kept behaving in a way that she knew would arouse me ( very easy when you're 22 and live in a state of pretty much permanent arousal) then when I rolled onto my back to speak to her she suddenly just placed herself on me even though I kept telling her to get off. I remember grabbing her arms and pushing but to actually force her off felt like an act of violence and I couldn't bring myself to do it.

Hope that's not too much detail, I don't want to creep anyone out.

So it just happened, but the relationship limped on for a while - I was really too young and immature to deal with it emotionally or to know what to do next. I hope this isn't too crass a comparison but for me it felt like having your house burgled - for a while you feel invaded and violated, then it just goes into the memory banks and gets forgotten. So I would certainly never link it with the terrible and life-changing assaults that I know many people have sadly experienced. It's just an anecdote that I thought was relevant to the thread.

scallopsrgreat · 05/09/2013 10:12

"In my case, it was the very fact that I was so much bigger and stronger than her stopped me using force." I can absolutely see why that was Twibble. Sorry that happened to you.

garlicbargain · 05/09/2013 10:16

Yes, that's what I did. I "hopped on". Women joke about it. Which is as revolting as men joking about sexual assault, isn't it? I am embarrassed for my former self.

garlicbargain · 05/09/2013 10:24

"Turn up naked, with beer" --- because easy sex is all any man wants, ever (with added football in some versions.) It's demeaning to men, as well as reducing women to their bodies.

Original poster

curlew · 05/09/2013 10:34

"Yes, that's what I did. I "hopped on". Women joke about it. Which is as revolting as men joking about sexual assault, isn't it? I am embarrassed for my former self."

But is it? I'm struggling for the right words here, but isn't there something in the power inbalance that makes it different? I understand why a man in Twibble's situation did not use physical force- but the fact remains that if he had chosen to, he could have done. Please don't leap in and call this victim blaming- I'm thinking aloud and may decide I'm wrong anyway. As I said, there's are loads of ways I could make my Dp do something he didn't want to- I am sure I could make him have sex with me against his will. But I could not physically force him. And there is an insistence among the MRA that women rape men using physical violence. And that does not seem a very credible thing to say. Psychological force, yes, but they don't seem very interested in that.

OP posts:

garlicbargain · 05/09/2013 10:45

Agreed, I'm not talking about the same thing. It's the first time I've thought about about this properly ... it is demeaning behaviour, and the assumptions behind it are the rapey ones discussed above. So I think it bears examination.

I think the MRAs should be interested in psychological force! Popular wisdom allows that women are experts in mental abuse and, again, women's jokes reinforce that idea.

I've seen scenes in films where men were raped by women, using force. I'm pretty sure it can be done, though I doubt it's done all that often. Unless he's smaller than you, or disabled, you're going to need equipment.

Rapes rarely involve extreme force, though. The threat of it (or sheer headfuckery) tends to be employed first.

garlicbargain · 05/09/2013 10:50

Yes, I do think the 'hop on' jokes are as bad. A man having a stiffy is no more a sure sign of readiness than a woman being wet. I behaved as badly as the men who've stuck a finger in, found moisture, and gone for it. On the relationships board, we tell women whose partners do this while they're asleep that they're being raped. I was no better than those men.
It's not 'funny', after all.

I'm late for an appointment! Stop being so interesting!

garlicbargain · 05/09/2013 10:51

sure sign of readiness - better to have said 'sure sign of consent'.

BoneyBackJefferson · 05/09/2013 17:43

Why is it that a female teacher that has had sex with a teenage boy is not a rapist?

As far as I have been able to find their is no lower age of consent for males in heterosexual relationships (please correct me if I am wrong) and the prevailing attitude is "lucky bastard" or similar.

Original poster

curlew · 05/09/2013 17:59

The age of consent is the same got girls and boys.

Technically, women cannot rqpe men by definition.

OP posts:

emmelinelucas · 05/09/2013 18:20

How can a man be forced into sex with penetration ? I mean physically, he has to be able. A man who feels coerced/frightened wouldnt be able to achieve an erection. Doesnt a man need to be aroused to be able to do that ?

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