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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

AIBU to feeling both enraged & depressed at this

28 replies

AnnoyedAtWork · 22/07/2013 17:16

Work colleague (male dominated env.) telling my line mgr he's going on a stag do to Croatia, when asked why there particularly, says "it's very, um, pretty.." with knowing smirk (clearly referencing the fact he will go to strip club / worse but knows can't mention in front of me ) .

Regardless of your views on strip clubs on stag do's, AIBU to think that he should not have been alluding to this shit in the workplace, makes me feel like women are totally marginalised and laughed at behind our backs!

I know this person is a nasty piece of work and doesn't respect women but the fact that others will laugh along behind my back makes me feel so terribly angry and want to cry. It makes me paranoid that most men in fact do not respect their wives /girlfriends and think nothing of lying, belittling, marginalising, cheating on them and certainly don't take women seriously in the work place.

I trust my partner and he dislikes the idea of strip clubs as degrading and agrees with me it is not okay if you are in a relationship. However I worry that it would be difficult to ensure that the 1 or 2 remaining stag dos (last few def did not include this) - given the friends they will be for- would not include visit to lap dance club. The idea makes me feel physically ill and I could not accept my partner going to one even though I'd trust him not to get a dance. So basically I'm dreading having to eventually cross that bridge when those 2 friends get married. Id be asking him to tell his mates he won't go if strip clubs are involved or if it turns out to be a surprise, to not go in. I felt like we communicate well about feminism etc and so was worrying about this less but the thing with my work colleague has made me despair of men.

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QuiteContent · 22/07/2013 20:29

You asked, he probably knew your feelings over these issues and so coyly hinted at what he was going for in a way that stopped you marching to HR.
I can't see the problems with strip clubs, all though I expect to be in the vast minority here as a man posting on a feminist thread. If you do have a distaste for them, that's more than reasonable - no doubt about it, but it is perhaps a bit ott to be enraged just because a colleague might be visiting one.
It certainly shouldn't make you despair of men, we're not all hopping on a plane to watch some strumpet dance about.
It's fair that you expect your husband to stay away from them if that's what you discussed, but for me, what some chap does with his weekend is no cause for concern to anyone else, especially as he didn't shout about it.

I'm not pro or anti feminism or anything really, and whilst I appreciate you are, there's surely bigger issues to get offended over than a man you work with hinting that he is going abroad to check out some tarts.
I'm not trying to dismiss your concerns, not at all, it's just that you make it sound like you're the type that tries to get offended over the most minor thing, which I'm sure is not the case at all.

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TunipTheVegedude · 22/07/2013 20:36

YANBU and don't take any notice of the last poster.

The really depressing thing is the smirk. He didn't say it outright so it's hard for you to make a complaint, which is what is so annoying.

Not everywhere is like this, though. Maybe one day you can find a job somewhere that's not full of sexist arseholes.

QuiteContent - 'check out some tarts'? Hmm I would only expect a sad misogynist to use language like that. Does that describe you?
And, you know, it's not up to a man to tell women what they should be getting offended about.

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QuiteContent · 22/07/2013 20:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Sheshelob · 22/07/2013 20:48

Wow.

I think QuiteContent just won misogynist bingo.

Hmm

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TunipTheVegedude · 22/07/2013 20:51

I like the bit about how he is reasonable and neutral Grin

Sometimes men are so clueless.

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Bunnylion · 22/07/2013 20:51

YANBU.

I worked with a guy who used to go to Thailand 3 times a year as a sex tourist. He'd then happily chat about the explicit details with male colleagues, prices of the "girls", what you can get for what etc. I found him absolutely repugnant as a human being. Beyond some blunt ridicule whenever he mentioned his exploits in front of me, I never took it any further. I probably should have because I didn't want to hear that shit while I'm working and I don't think that kind or behaviour should be treated as normal - especially at work. If you felt uncomfortable it is worth mentioning to your manager. Either way, separate it from the second issue of your DH as it will only cause you stress. And don't let this idiot make you despair in men, most are lovely.

As for your DH, all you can do is make it clear to him just how strongly you feel and that it would hurt you if he ever went to a lap dancing club. Then it's just a matter of trust and hoping he's not a sheep. My DH came home early from a stag do last year when the others all went to one. He is a feminist and wasn't comfortable making chit chat and buying drinks for naked teenagers, and he knew that I'd be disappointed in him as a man and as the father of my children if he did. He doesn't feel half as strongly as I do about the sex industries but he gets it. If the situation arises with your DH talk to him to make sure he does too before he gets in a situation where he might not think that its a big deal to just go along with the boys.

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TunipTheVegedude · 22/07/2013 20:53

Bunny is right, pre-empting it is the wisest thing.

The men that do this stuff like to make out all men do it but actually quite a lot are decent human beings who hate it.

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ParsleyTheLioness · 22/07/2013 20:56

I have found myself on a board... Really? Did you not expect the feminist boards to be about, err, feminism then Not very Quitecontent?

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OliviaLMumsnet · 22/07/2013 21:00

Ahem

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Sheshelob · 22/07/2013 21:01

I'm slightly disappointed he chickened out after two posts.

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TunipTheVegedude · 22/07/2013 21:03

Good evening, Olivia.
I hope the weather is clement at Mumsnet Towers this evening.

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Sheshelob · 22/07/2013 21:04

What's up, Olivia?

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LEMisdisappointed · 22/07/2013 21:14

Without wanting to be pendantic, i can't help but get a bit twitchy when people use the word "depressed" to describe something that makes them angry/sad because of an issue. I am saddened when depression is taken out of context, it is a serious medical condition and as someone who has suffered from this condition i can safely say that whilst i would be as disgusted as the OP, it certainly doesn't make me depressed.

Quitecontent - check out some tarts??? LMAO Hmm twat

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TheSmallClanger · 22/07/2013 21:19

YANBU, although it's hard to actually do anything about it.

I also work with someone (different department, thankfully), who is quite open about his sex-tourism in Thailand. The crawly way he giggles about it knowingly is nauseating.

He is also very patronising to female colleagues, but hides in behind "old-fashioned" niceness. Urgh.

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AnnoyedAtWork · 22/07/2013 21:35

Ah I missed what that comment was before it was deleted. Prolly a good thing!!

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AnnoyedAtWork · 22/07/2013 21:38

Thanks bunny. My dh is like yours. I don't need to worry about him Smile

Thanks all for replies except for quite content

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Sheshelob · 22/07/2013 21:38

It was a doozy. Literally every douchebag buzzword.

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QuiteContent · 23/07/2013 13:02

To answer the poster that wondered if I knew a feminist board would be about feminism, yes I did. My point was that they are a lot of deep seated inequalities and getting all upset, man hating and stroppy over flippant remarks made by one man concerning a trip that had nothing to do with op or anyone else, simply reinforces the view held by neutrals that feminists are just looking to get wound up over the slightest issue and belong in the fringes of society where their rants are held with detached amusement.
Find a bigger cause, one that isn't murky ( this man apparently hinted and smirked, that's it).
Didn't mean to upset anyone, if I did I would have pointed out that the more trips away he has, the more chance the women have to catch up with him.
Done for good now, peace.

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Sausageeggbacon · 23/07/2013 13:32

The only reason to go to a strip club outside of the UK is because the licensing regulations forbid any contact here. If a stag do is going abroad for "stripping" what they mean is they expect a lot more that you wouldn't get in the UK.

If it was in the UK I wouldn't worry, if it goes outside of the UK then yes I have issues. Certainly a lot more happens at Adonis or Dream Boys for hens than any strip club would risk nowadays.

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AnnoyedAtWork · 23/07/2013 16:41

The hinting and smirking was worse than if he had said it outright! I am not looking to be offended I just want to feel I'm an equal to my male colleagues in the workplace. And besides I'm not "offended and stroppy" I find the degradation and exploitation of women upsetting, which is perfectly sensible. Neutrals. Ha.

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Sheshelob · 23/07/2013 19:27

Thanks, QuiteContent. I needed a rational man like you to tell me what to think and what issues the care about.

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MiniTheMinx · 23/07/2013 21:58

MadameLeBean you are more than an equal to the smarmy childish little man who smirks about women being reduced to the sum and total of their bodies, paid to strip for him and others like him.

However you do seem to be focussed on how you feel, how denigrating and disrespectful men are towards their wives and girlfriends and not how these men view all women. "I trust my partner and he dislikes the idea of strip clubs as degrading and agrees with me it is not okay if you are in a relationship" does this mean you think it would be fine for any man to go to a strip club if he is single?

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MadameLeBean · 24/07/2013 10:26

no I still think it would be out of order as the whole concept encourages men to view women as objects and is divisive between the genders nto to mention the whole trafficking /degrading issues. and I dont like how normalised it is for men to do it on stag dos even if they are in relationships (if you ignore the reasons why no one should be going). they would not like their wife/partner doing the same i am sure.

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OctopusPete8 · 24/07/2013 11:33

Does he have a GF/wife OP?

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MadameLeBean · 24/07/2013 12:19

Yep he does. They know it's wrong or they would be open about it (even single men are generally not, right?).

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