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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Small things that make you angry and you feel you can't mention elsewhere

583 replies

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik · 11/06/2013 17:08

I was thinking that maybe we need one of those threads that reminds us we all have much more in common with each other, than any of us does with the misogynistic bigots. Smile

I don't know what the feministy equivalent of 'first world problem' is, but I bet there are loads of things you've been itching to point out annoy you, but don't start an AIBU about, or don't moan to your colleague/DH/mates about because it feels insignificant.

Maybe we can all have a good moan here - and maybe back each other up that these things typically aren't so small and insignificant really!

I will go first. I noticed the other day how, when I'm walking down a pavement, I automatically move to the side out of the way of busy men striding along with briefcases. Even when I'm busy. Confused Why do I do that? And how come I feel rude - and do get funny looks - when I don't do that?

OP posts:
schooldidi · 25/06/2013 16:36

That makes sense to me too.

I know one couple who both changed their names to a hybrid of both surnames. Their families were both really hurt, it's caused a lot of bad feeling, so much so that his father barely speaks to him since he changed his name. You have to have really strong feelings about a name to do it in spite of that much pressure.

Dp and I aren't married and our dds have one name each. So dd1 has my surname and dd2 has his. Although, since dd1 is not biologically dp's that probably isn't a feminist choice. Dd2's first name sounds better with his surname than with mine, so that's why we went for his name. If we ever split up (we are currently quite happy with the way things are) then I will still be happy for her to have his name as we would always hope to be equal parents.

superbagpuss · 25/06/2013 17:25

I took dh name because our names looked stupid double barrelled and he refused my name as he said it is a comedy name

same sex couple we know (male) double barrelled their name

we know one couple who took wife's name as she had an academic career and had published under her name

ExasperatedSigh · 25/06/2013 18:22

I really like dh's name and would have happily taken it ifi didn't like my own so much. The kids have my surname, with his as a second middle name. We talked about double barrelling but they're three syllables each so it would have been a bit ridiculous.

rosabud · 25/06/2013 20:17

One of the things that makes me REALLY angry but which I can't mention anywhere but here (and it has been met with bemused misunderstanding by friends/partner/family etc) is the obsession with who is taking whose name because by making it an issue at all, it makes it part of patriarchy. When I was born I didn't have my father's name - I had my name. When I got married and changed my name it wasn't my husband's name - it was my name. When I gave my children names, I didn't give them my name or my husband's name - I gave them their own names and the minute they received those names they became their names. When I got divorced, I didn't keep my husband's name, I kept my name. Because whatever I choose to be called is my name. I am a person in my own right, I don't belong to my father or my husband or my ex-husband or my children, and whatever name I choose to call myself is MY name.

ThirdTimesABrokenFanjo · 25/06/2013 20:32

I agree wholeheartedly that it is not your father's name, it is your name.

Why should it be his name because he happens to be a man if he was born to it the same as you.

Ds and dd both have a the same surname and it certainly is not more ds's name because he is a boy.

But I can't see how you can argue that choosing your husband's name isn't taking on "his" name. You have no other right to it other than your marriage. No other reason to take it on besides him. It is a subservient thing to do really.

And I say that as someone who took on their husband's name. You can't refuse to question these things otherwise nothing would change.

Original poster
MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik · 25/06/2013 20:39

I know what she means though - to some people, it's as if all surnames in the world automatically belong to men (even those ones that pedants like me know are feminine, like Brewster Hmm).

OP posts:
AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom · 25/06/2013 20:49

A very similar but slightly different point. The thing that drives me crazy is the 'ooh, but your maiden name is your father's name anyway' line of argument about why you might as well change your name - ie. that you always have the name of one man or another.

Bollocks. If I 'had my father's name', so did my brother. But no, because he is a boy it's his name.

I do agree about the taking names thing too. Yes, there are conceptual arguments if you change your name to that of your husband. But from then on it is your name. You don't 'keep' it if you divorce. It's not a bloody CD collection

curryeater · 25/06/2013 20:56

Rosabud, really good point.

My girls have my dp's surname but on them it looks like theirs in a way mine wouldn't (to me), because my family have a habit of taking everything over. If I got married I wouldn't change my name because it's mine now. But for brand new people I quite wanted it to be about us rather than the family I came from. I know it's weird that I felt like that and Rosabud has articulated very nicely why, thankyou, my dear

AnnoyedAtWork · 25/06/2013 21:19

It would be nice if I we could all have the same surnames as our kids. But yes, sometimes double barrelling doesn't work and it would be nice if the default wasn't for the woman to take the mans name.

Personally I would feel weird about changing my name because I'd feel like I was leaving "my" family and joining "his" side (which is exactly what happened in the old days when women were property)! - This is why it irritates me when others do it.

I guess if as many men did it or if it was normal for both partners to nc then that would be fine. But that's not the case and we still have the patriarchal default.

I'd also no longer feel like me.

I don't know what we will do if DP and I have a child (I have dd8 who has my name and her dads dbl barrelled - we never married) as even when we get married I will keep my name but feel strongly about sharing a surname with my child. Double barrelling in our case would be a disaster! Maybe dc2 will have my surname as a middle name.

AnnoyedAtWork · 25/06/2013 21:21

Sorry didn't mean to derail the thread onto this topic as I know it has been done to death!!

Original poster
MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik · 25/06/2013 21:28

Not a derail, I don't think. Smile

I started it so we could talk about this stuff and not get the 'oh, that's been done to death' response (amongst other responses).

OP posts:
curryeater · 25/06/2013 21:37

I think there is more coercion in this in many cases than usually acknowledged. I worked with someone who "hadn't got around to" changing her passport etc after marriage (= didn't want to). He booked a holiday for them in her married name and told her she had better hurry up and sort out her passport or she wouldn't be able to get on the plane.

She did. I told her, "you should have said, Have a nice holiday with Mrs x, whoever she is, because she isn't me - my name is Sarah Y"

rosabud · 25/06/2013 22:27

I know what she means though - to some people, it's as if all surnames in the world automatically belong to men

Thank you, MRD you have understood me perfectly - but put it better than I did! Smile

UptoapointLordCopper · 26/06/2013 07:15

Thank you about the discussion on surnames! It has become clear to me now. Smile

schooldidi · 26/06/2013 15:25

I'm going away on a school trip in a few months time. It's a residential and I'll be away for 4 days, 3 nights. Most of the women I have told this have said "but what about dd2?" Dd1 is 13 so everybody assumes she's old enough to more or less look after herself, but dd2 is 3 so they are horrified that I am leaving her. I'm leaving her with her father for 4 days, why on earth is that shocking?

MrsTerryPratchett · 26/06/2013 16:02

I just had to put this somewhere and you have given me a place... FIL is staying with us. DH has an annoying boss. He said something about it and FIL said, "is she in that job just because they needed a women supervisor?". Thankfully DH, who knows me and didn't want WWIII while I was driving, said, "no, she's good at her job, just this aspect is bad, nothing to do with her being a woman". FIL also asked if she is good-looking Hmm

I wanted to point out that DH had two really incompetent male bosses at his last job and oddly FIL never thought they had their jobs because they are have penises.

UptoapointLordCopper · 26/06/2013 17:03

I'm quarrelling with John Lewis about Boys' Toys and Girls' Toys:

Boys' Toys for 8-year-olds: Lego, Nerf guns and accessories, Rummikub.

Girls' Toys for 8-year-olds: Jewellery craft kits.

Angry
vintagecakeisstillnice · 26/06/2013 22:02

Why in all the life insurance adds I've seen it's always the man taking out the insurance??

Cause of course the financial impact of losing a wife/ female partner doesn't matter 'cause its the man who brings in the bacon. . .

wundawoman · 26/06/2013 22:37

Admittedly a long time ago - 25 years ago, but this still has a big impact on me.

I worked in an office. The company i worked for had 'tea ladies' who would make tea for the male managers. Even though I was the same level as these managers, I was not entitled to a cup of tea because I was a female!!! Shock

Omg!

AnnoyedAtWork · 26/06/2013 22:40

OMg wunda that's terrible!!

Today my boss said he would not be watching / betting on the women's tennis because it would all be "dependent on whether they'd had an argument with their boyfriends the night before"

Rage!

And don't get me started on the Julia Gillard thing. Line manager: do you think it's cos the Australians don't like lezzers?

Just cos she has no husband /kids!

Startail · 27/06/2013 00:24

Women's tennis is unfortunately often crap, but the men are just as likely, more likely given today's results, to be having a bad day.

Original poster
MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik · 27/06/2013 00:29

Shock wunda, that's so shit.

madame, did you hear the wanker on the radio a week or so ago who persistently asked Gillard if her (male) partner was gay because 1) he's a hairdresser and 2) erm ...

It was appalling.

Just trying to make her feel shit with 'your boyfriend must be gay' ... I've no idea how she put up with that for so long.

OP posts:
SconeRhymesWithGone · 27/06/2013 01:02

On the name change thing, I really do think it is rightfully each woman's choice; my own daughter took her husband's name on marriage. But it is the inequality of the practice that bothers me. Married people having the same name is fine, but why should it automatically be the husband's?

The societal assumption in English speaking countries that the woman will change her name is a symbolic vestige of coveture, the doctine in English common law that a woman's legal existence ceased upon marriage and merged into her husbands. And that irritates the hell out of me.

PromQueenWithin · 27/06/2013 07:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

UptoapointLordCopper · 27/06/2013 09:18

Mr and Mrs DH first name surname Angry Angry Angry

I said to serial offender: my friends call me myfirstname and the rest of the world address me as Dr mysurname.