Female privilege

[lose24lb]

There is a lot of talk of male privilege but not female privilege? Can we discuss things from the other point of view?

As a white female in a developed country, my privileges are:

1. If I am a child and I go missing, the media is far more likely to give my case more attention than if I were a boy. And if I'm pretty with blonde hair then all the better, I can guarantee the entire country will know I'm missing and be out looking for me.

1. From an early age the opposite sex will be instructed never to hit me but I will be given the same instructions. And should I strike males I can expect not to be hit back and any social penalties that occur from my actions will actually fall on the male.

1. If I'm not smart and unable to get a well paying job, all I have to do is marry a wealthy man.

1. Most homeless are men, yet most homeless shelters are created with my gender in mind. Which means if I go homeless I am more likely to get a bed in a shelter than if I were male.

1. If I commit a crime I am more likely to get more leniency than a man in the exact same circumstances. People will want to try and understand what made a pretty woman like me do such a thing and look for reasons. Unless I go on a mass murder spree I don't really have to worry about going to prison.

1. If I am attacked, passers-by are far more likely to intervene to protect me than if I were male.

1. As a female I am less likely to be physically attacked in the first place or challenged to a fight.

1. Despite killing almost as many people, prostate cancer gets only a fraction of the funding than breast cancer does. It benefits me if my health issues are given priority over men's health issues even if the men's issues are almost as deadly.

1. If a man masturbates it is seen as disgusting and perverse. If I masturbate then I am seen as pleasuring myself. Female masturbation doesn't carry the same stigma as male masturbation.

10. If I am pretty and/or I can make myself cry I will be able to get away with anything and everything.

11. If I am upset I am allowed to cry without being ridiculed. I don't have to be all macho and bottle my feelings up like boys and men have to do.

12. Similar to #11, I am encouraged to seek help if I need it. Seeking help is not seen as a weakness for my gender. If I seek support I will get it and people won't laugh at me or ridicule me or tell me to "man up" or "take it like a man".

13. I can wear almost anything I want without having my sexual orientation being questioned. If a man doesn't want people to think he is gay then his wardrobe will be extremely limited. But with the possible exception of dungarees I can wear anything I want.

14. One word- chivarly. Because I am female I can expect little perks here and there. One seat left on a bus? It's mine! Expensive dinner bill? The guy can get his wallet out.

15. If my husband lays a finger on me he will be labelled as a wife beater for the rest of his life, be beaten up by other men and spend time in prison. But if I hit my husband people will say "you go girl!" and say he must have deserved it. I can hit my husband and he won't dare hit me back out of fear of what I just pointed out.

16. Violence against women is the worst crime on earth. Violence against men is hilarious, especially if it involved injury to the titter penis/balls.

17. On today's TV programmes my gender is portrayed as being smart, strong and independent. The male characters in today's soaps, comedy's, cartoons etc are shown as complete idiots, deadbeat useless fathers or criminals.

18. I can work with children without being worried about people thinking horrible things or making horrible allegations.

19. If I live in the USA and there is a military draft, I won't be forced against my will to sign up to the army and go fight in battle.

Interesting! I just thought it meant a piece if trivia!

Ok, a fact then

Ornamental sex?

Really?

Obviously I totally disagree with the concept of ornamental sex, but I don't think it even makes sense in the context in which I think it's meant. In the animal world, in species where females choose their mates, don't the males tend to be the ones who undertake "displays"?

Ugh 'flipping hair' is such a patronising line. Of course, the opposite is also true when men ( male academics in my experience) ask for IT help then get hysterical when a woman turns up to help them. I can't count the number of times I've been blatantly or subtly told to send a man instead because heaven forbid that a man has to be shown how to do something on a computer by a woman >. Anyway, where I work it's tough luck, my dept is all female so they have no choice in the matter. It's truly amazing how many would prefer not to know how to do something that makes life easier for both themselves and their students if it means they have to admit to a woman that they can't do manly computer stuff.

You don't like the expression 'ornamental sex'? - it comes straight from the way scientists describe the sexes in other animals. In birds, the ornamental sex is the male. In humans, it's undoubtedly the female. Why would so many women, even some hard core feminists, feel 'good' when they where make-up? I have no problem with the expression even though I don't feel very ornamental (I never wear make-up or shave my pits).

If you took away this 'patriarchy', overturned it whatever it is you want, what do you think women would find to fancy in men? I was tickled to read a thread about what women find sexy about men and even regular posters on this board saying 'I like a man with muscular forearms' etc. Women would find it's the same things they've always found sexy - men to provide, to protect etc. Men find youth sexy and symmetry too. All for good evolutionary reasons. Before you all go 'ugh' - not ALL women/men, this is just a generalisation.

Slug, I used the 'patronising line' on purpose, because I find it such an ugly way to go about working with people. However, I don't doubt for a minute about your experiences! I don't know why IT has become such a masculine thing. Like lacrosse is a girls' sport in the UK but a macho boys' sport in the US, and the other way around for football. Clearly a case for social conditioning if ever there was.

We're not fucking "ornaments" fuck off with that!

ornamental sex makes me drool over think of tanned waxed and nicely toned male flesh in speedos and designer shades strutting up and down italian shorelines

think they must spend all year preparing for August but it's nice that the grooming standards are roughly similar for men and women

how long until the summer hols anyway?

Seems you're getting in a muddle over being 'an ornament' and being described as an 'ornamental sex'. In our species, it's the women who decides to choose the mate so ultimate mate choice and reproductive power resides with the women (unless, of course, the man takes over though this is rare - most men are not rapists). Does that make you feel better Vegehamwidge? THis is why low ranking men find it hard/impossible to attract women (much more so than equivalently ranked women). This is a downside to not being the ornamental sex.

But hey Mitchy, do you really find that attractive? Men are (generally) the visual ones, hence the dominance of porn for men. I know I used to like the idea of of hunky men getting their clothes off....but I realise now in my older years that it doesn't really turn me on at all.

Oh, as a side note - in terms of sexual dimorphism, humans are pretty low down on the scale. So though there is this idea of the ornamental sex etc, it's much less exaggerated than in most other species. Phew!

the fact that some men will fuck anything is not evidence of anything much or is it?

do I find men who take a bit of care over their appearance and physical fitness attractive? Um yeah

does the sight of overweight pale flesh in long baggy shorts on the beach please anyone?

Men opening doors for women, for no other reason than chivalry, is a small thing in the grand scheme of sexism, but it's an example of a patriarchal sweetener. It helps to hide the oppression of women as a group by men as a group.

I'm not saying that individual men consciously think "here's a chance to oppress women for the good of the brotherhood". The man's actions have been conditioned by society since childhood. He has been taught and encouraged to open doors for women, and patriarchy benefits indirectly from this. It was probably his mother who taught him and she won't consciously have been thinking "let's oppress women". It has just been treated as the polite, accepted, expected, normal, traditional (but patriarchal) thing to teach young boys.

Men own most of the world's property, so when a woman is granted the so-called "female privilege" of having a door opened for her, please remember that the door is in a building that is probably owned by a man.

Door-opening has been a small patriarchal habit, which has deflected most women from asking, "would I rather have a man open a door for me, that I'm capable of opening myself, or would I prefer joint-ownership of the entire building?"

Likewise, men paying of restaurant meals. It has deflected most women from asking, "would I rather have a man buy me dinner (often with his expectation of sex in return), or would I prefer to be paid as much as him for doing the same job?"

But it isn't a choice between having dinner bought and having equal salaries though. At least you say this is probably not conciously done. The same behavoiur can be seen if the world was made of male-providers/protectors. That's their 'role' (evolutionary speaking). I'm not trying to defend this behaviour either - being natural doesn't make it right.

I think more gains would be made if feminists wised up a bit to the biology and just started campaigning on solid grounds - equal pay for equal work, basic rights like not to be raped etc. And, yes, acknowledging that sometimes (just sometimes) it sucks to be a man (awaits a flaming).

PS I find the 'menz' word as equally offensive as 'wimmins ishoos'.

LeBFG wrote - "In our species, it's the women who decides to choose the mate"

Except for all the women who did not choose their mate. For example, many women had their mate chosen for them by their father, mother, tribal elder or chief.

Ugh. And now we get the evolutionary biology argument. I suggest you go and read Cordelia Fine before wittering on about biological differences.

LeBFG wrote - "I think more gains would be made if feminists wised up a bit to the biology"

By biology are you referring to ideas like evolution of species, adapting and surviving by genetic mutation, natural selection etc., or are your referring to culturally-biased interpretations of what is "natural" for men and women in 21st century Europe?

The former vesuvia.

I suggest you look at this before dismissing any biological difference between the sexes slug.

Also, ask yourself the question: why is the human species the exception? We see male and female dogs acting differently, ditto horses, cats, fish...

LeBFG you are muddled between evolution and biology (science) and evolutionary psychology (not science). It's not science because it is not observable and not testable. I know many real scientists and none of them consider evolutionary psychology to be a science of any sort. It is simply the application of cultural and social truisms to try to understand how we got here. A bit like the story of Adam and Eve but dressed up with terminology appropriated from actual science. Story telling, not science.

As others have pointed out, there is no evidence that women were the choosing sex when it came to mating. In fact, everything we know about history suggests that this was generally not the case. We don't even know at what point in time people realised the connection between sexual intercourse and child birth. The length of pregnancy is only relatively recently understood.

I am not convinced by any argument regarding 'why is the human species the exception'. We are the exception in quite a few key areas- like acquisition of language.

As I said, I don't disagree that there may be biological differences influencing behaviour. I'm just not sure anyone has proved it yet, and I'm certainly not sure about talking about it like a given.

Wow, I only got to no 5 on the list and am wondering if this is a joke thread? I hope you have some facts to back these up and that apparently common wealthy man I seem to need to marry as well if you don't mind!

Sorry LeBFG but I just spat coffee on my keyboard at the suggestion that football is a macho sport in the UK. You are not seriously suggesting those overpaid divas are macho are you? Rolling around in "agony" when they get a kick on the shin.

If you want macho think of the UK women's hockey team captain at the Olympics who had her jaw shattered, spent overnight in hospital to get it plated and was back on the field for the next match. But of course that doesn't count as macho because she's a girly so one of the "ornamental sex".

Also, be careful about declaring the human species the exception when it comes to biological differences. You could try looking at the behaviour of hyaenas, certain shark species, many birds of prey (females much bigger and dominant), many prosimians, spiders. And if biology is so fixed why among, say, lions is it the female who does the bulk of the hunting?

The more we learn about biology the more we understand that it is incredibly variable among and within species.

I'm variable myself clearly as I have never resorted to hair flicking to get help. How not ornamental of me

I can see 10/11 OK-ish make sense...
The rest are all male based from what I can see; male violence against women being worse and more frequent than the other way around = women get protection. Women are more likely to end up in prison with a mental illness and don't commit as many violent crimes as men = shorter sentences. We live in in a male dominated world and although these points are speculative twaddle for the most part, men hold the power so why can't they help/change these 'issues'?