Radfem 2013 and the MRAs

[MooncupGoddess]

As many of you will remember, the Radfem 2012 conference in London was explicitly open only to born women and consequently attracted lots of condemnation and anger from people who saw this as transphobic. It was kicked out of its original venue at Conway Hall and went underground (very successfully in the end).

This year Radfem 2013 has not explicitly banned transwomen... but instead it's come under attack from Men's Rights Activists, who have staged a demo at the planned venue, the London Irish Centre, while making lots of unpleasant and ridiculous claims about how radical feminists want to murder small boys and the like. As a result the venue is threatening to cancel the booking.

www.mralondon.org/

bugbrennan.com/2013/04/20/statement-from-rad-fem-2013/

I have mixed feelings about the whole trans issue but have no hesitation in declaring the MRAs utter misogynist knobbers and am disappointed the London Irish Centre has seemingly caved into them.

I hate to break this to you, Elohim, but there are weirdos on the internet who say unpleasant and irrational things. My advice is not to take them too seriously.

She's already told us why she joined, and it was nothing to do with human rights issues, it was personal:
'I joined a men's rights group because I know just how wicked, evil and vindictive some women can be'.

And of course men can't ever be vindictive and wicked, so no need to join a woman's rights group.

it is difficult for me to judge how vehemently you feel when you use variable numbers of !!! elohim is there any way for you to standardise it

tia

Well after she has spent some time in the MRA camp maybe she'll realise just how deranged and beyond reason some men are.

I linked early in the thread to a site that had collated some of the most shocking comments made about men and male children by women who "claimed to be RadFem". I don't doubt for a moment that some women think in terms that are man hating. I feel that these comments from randoms being posted all over the net are part of the problem. Some probably come from a place of great pain others ignorance, some pure spite. But more than anything I think it comes from ignorance, its about lay people adopting incomplete theory, bad analysis and making even worse ideology. For that reason I think the RadFem conference should go ahead. It is important that the academics, the activists and the thinkers get out there and talk. I hope that just maybe the organisers will have the guts to tackle the issue, otherwise what is essentially something good will turn very ugly.

As for Herod and baby killing, he wasn't the first but as I remember he was as is usually the case with any ruling class.......male.

I'll start worrying about evil violent rad fems when they start raping, killing and beating up men in the numbers men do to women.

Until then, I think I'll remain fairly unworried tbh.

But of course, a couple of women talking about that sort of thing on t'interweb, is far, far worse, then men who aren't even MRA activists actually doing it to women on a grand scale.

If you've got no sense of proportion.

Thanks for the Engels link, Mini, that looks interesting.

Elohim illustrates well how hard it is or even impossible to engage with MRAs on any sensible level. You can't have a rational discussion with people who join organisations to fight things that don't exist. It reminds me of this a bit:

blogs.independent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/down_with_this_sort_of_thing.jpg

arf at Basil's songs.

"Killing baby boys has happened and it all started back with Herod and from what I have read in Rad Fem forums it is something you people seem to talk about. Why on earth would anyone write such a sadistic thing if you claim that you don't actually do it?"

1. Herod was a bloke who was a King in Egypt a few thousand years ago.He was not a radical feminist sitting in the UK in 2013. I am utterly bamboozled not sure why parallels are being drawn.

1. Radical feminists are not murdering male babies as a general ideological thing that they do. If they were, wouldn't someone have noticed by now? I have met radical feminists with sons. The idea that radical feminists are killing their male offspring and no-one is noticing is, um, totally unbelievable peculiar I think.

King Herod: not a rad fem.

You heard it here first.

Just thought maybe I should have checked where herod lived before writing.

It's been a while since I looked in my bible.

Still the gist is still valid

Oh noes!

However.
In the Old Testament it is mostly God that does the baby killing. Does that mean God is a rad fem?

And if so does the Bible keep saying 'He' when it is obviously 'She'?

I mean, WHY does the Bible....

Oh, sweet! God may be a rad fem.

He does seem to have an ishoo with male first-borns.

Yep, and notice how he only ever talks to men. These days if you hear voices you get locked up.

This is a complete derail, but I've just been reading The Book of Margery Kempe, who was this medieval English religious woman, and there's a lovely bit where God tells her to stop wearing a hair shirt and wear a hair shirt in her heart instead.

Even God got a leetle bit fed up with dear Margery.

She is fantastic. In the manuscript version, this Carthusian monk goes through it all and annotates all the bits where she describes having a mystical vision or an emotional experience, and cross-references to what he knows various monks who're a bit spiritual do. I quite like it, it's evidence that women being histrionically emotional over religion could actually be a model for men being histrionically emotional, too.

See that sounds the sort of sensible thing I would expect god to say. Not some of the crisp he is alleged to say to men.

Do any of you listen? I don't just care about the boys. I care about the girls as well, of course I do. For God's sake I am a much loved and respected Aunty and they all fight for my attention and I share my time with them equally and I don't treat them any differently - therefore I know my nieces and nephews - I treat them equally. This would be my view for any boy or girl. By the way a woman can rape a man - I know this from experience and before you all jump to conclusions thinking it's me then think again! Another think, I don't think I have been misled about radical feminists but I can at least tell you this: I know I wouldn't want to be you! Who really cares whether it actually started with Herod or not killing babies, history might not be my strong point but I was merely using him as an example. By the way it was a care worker from Radfem that stated "I have honestly have been reassessing the fact that I am giving care to these little future rapists, and what that says about me about me and my separatism. I know it is kinda going against my principle to support and care for these little fuckers." and she herself is Radical Feminist....any other stupid questions or comments you want to throw at me? Fight me I can take it! Cathy Brennan I do hope you enjoy your conference - on the streets will it be? Let's hope it doesn't rain on you!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure you do care about your nieces and nephews, and that is very nice.

But some of us also care about other people's children, about the huge number of women who are oppressed purely because of their gender. The majority of foetuses that are aborted? Those are female foetuses. Yet here you are, ignoring that and making up stories about male infanticide.

How do you reconcile that with your claim to care about women as well as men?

A woman cannot rape a man under UK law. This has already been explained to you? Did you not understand, or did you not believe us?

I do not honestly believe that the quotation you're repeating is accurate in the slightest, as a representation of rad fem views. You can see it is not, by talking to all of us who identify as rad fems (or try to, in my rather wussy case), but who ... oddly enough ... aren't into the killing of boy babies.

I might as well pretend that everyone who is against rad fem 2013 supports the vile messages Brennan et al have been getting (eg. calling them scum, vile, suggesting they should be raped). You know why I don't assume everyone who doesn't like rad fem 2013 would make those statements? Because I am not a credulous idiot, nor am I deeply interested in lying in order to make people who don't share my views look bad.

Those comments that get made against Brennan ... or Julia Long, or Suzanne Moore, or whoever it happens to be this week ... they're horrible and disgusting, and the blame for them should be laid at the feet of the people who make them.

Maybe you should consider doing the same?

Well, indeed, stick.

Besides which tunip has beautifully illustrated how quotations get taken out of context.