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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Women have their little careers till they have babies. Then they do as little as possible, preferably not working at all after that

531 replies

StealthPolarBear · 03/04/2013 13:27

I am infuriated by this attitude which seems to be prevalent. After women have had babies they only work if they have to, and go part time if they can. But I can't put into words why I work - why wouldn't I? I work for the same reasons as I did before I had children. I work for the same reasons as DH works.
Either of us could give up work and we'd cope. But that was true pre-children. Women continuing to work FT seems to be a slur on their man's ability to 'provide'.

OP posts:
SatsukiKusukabe · 04/04/2013 15:20

people forget that babies are people too with their own personalities.

morethanpotatoprints · 04/04/2013 15:29

Summer

I think dc could become reliant on a parent who is there all the time if you encouraged it. My personal experience is different but will agree I am at home with dd permanently and she doesn't attend school. Over the past year or so she has become almost completely independent for play and organising her work pattern and has become an independent learner. However, we are a different circumstance to the norm, I think.

scottishmummy · 04/04/2013 15:41

Its nothing to do with hands-on parenting,we dont prioritise activities over working
If I were inclined I could schedule numerous classes,I don't.don't think it's necessary
But imo it's a bit of a mc thing to do,often the explanation is the parent had no such opportunities so it's enriching

flatmum · 04/04/2013 15:51

I think the after school activities get easier as they get older too as they are generally later and they can get lifs with friends etc. my 8y old does a sport and cubs 2 evenings a week which we take him to and pick him up from after work. We can take days off or work from home on occasion for things like sports days, assemblies etc. there are 2 of us and neither of our work lives are seen as more or less important so we can spread the load. I'm not sure it's all so unachievable as it sounds tbh.

morethanpotatoprints · 04/04/2013 15:58

Scottish Grin at your mc thing to do.

Although I will agree we do come across the type you example above. I think it is necessary if its what the child really wants to do and if its something where they have a particular talent it seems madness to me not to encourage it.
If one of your dc was particularly gifted at Maths ot technology and wanted to join a group and compete in National/ international competitions, would you discourage this because the class meet at 4.30 on thursday and you are working then?

seeker · 04/04/2013 16:03

"I think the after school activities get easier as they get older too as they are generally later and they can get lifs with friends etc"

Grin What, friends whose mother/father doesn't WOH?

flatmum · 04/04/2013 16:05

No we take it in turns so one family drop and one pick up so that you don't have to go out twice in one evening. All 4 parents work (one part time) tho this isn't strictly relevant on the particular case as cubs starts at 6.30 pm and the sporting activity at 7pm

snowballschanceineaster · 04/04/2013 16:19

I hate the fact that some women in society think that mums who stay at home after they have children are weak and dis-empowered. I hate the fact that some women in society think that mums who dash back to full time work are driven and heartless and not fit mothers. I hate the fact that some women see the world in shades of black and white, right or wrong, and make no allowance for personal choice or personal freedom.

I am bringing my child up to realise that any choice she makes in terms of raising her family will be just that...her choice! I have told her that she should make the most of every opportunity that comes her way. That she should use any childcare that's available if it makes her happy, to pursue her goals. I have told her that I will happily help with childcare if I'm fit enough and live close enough. I have also told her that if she wants to pack it all in, or downsize after children, that's perfectly acceptable too.

I don't presume she will slot into one choice or the other WOHM or SAHM. She will hopefully be lucky enough to have choices, just as I did. And I will hopefully be around to support her in whatever choice she makes.

crumblingpile · 04/04/2013 16:20

"If one of your dc was particularly gifted at Maths ot technology and wanted to join a group and compete in National/ international competitions, would you discourage this because the class meet at 4.30 on thursday and you are working then?"

I don't thin k it's fair to say that by not being able to take them to a class you are 'discouraging' them, it's just one of those things - not possible to commit to. I think there are plenty of parents who would have to say no to a commitment like that unless they were able to find someone else to take the child to the classes and the competitions because it's just not possible to drop work willy nilly.

scottishmummy · 04/04/2013 16:21

Ok the hypothetical math club,id get a cm.I wouldn't attend,id be supportive
But these dizzying schedules are often cited as reason not to work,another task women do
We prioritize work before social schedule,and thats actually what it is.social activities. unless you're in tiny minority of child with aptitude eg Andy Murray tennis

morethanpotatoprints · 04/04/2013 16:27

Scottish.

My dd is the tiny minority of exceptionally gifted, but that wasn't my point really. I think any aptitude or interest in a subject should be encouraged because who knows what their dc will want to become when older.
I don't think it has to be a parent who ferries them about though, although I think that involvement could be necessary. My dd would be upset if I didn't attend a concert, accompany her to competitions and auditions.
It is not the reason why I don't work though, I haven't worked for 20+ years, entirely by choice.

Original poster
StealthPolarBear · 04/04/2013 16:32

But why bother nurturing their talent when they'll not be able to use it as a grown up at 4.30 on a Tuesday because their child has a flower arranging class?

OP posts:
rubyrubyruby · 04/04/2013 16:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
StealthPolarBear · 04/04/2013 16:38

Sorry ruby was that to me? Am losing track! I just think this argument is getting silly. I don't understand how it's got onto after school activities and in danger of turning into the usual bunfight - lazy SAHMs to the left, neglectful WOHMs to the right, WAHMs on that fence in the middle.

OP posts:
morethanpotatoprints · 04/04/2013 16:39

Stealth

Who said that because a child has a class their parent can't work. If that was what you were suggesting above.

My point was just because a parent doesn't work doesn't mean they don't/can't enjoy their life doing what they want. Life is not an endless round of domestic chores. Sometimes supporting and ferrying your children around can be enjoyable.

morethanpotatoprints · 04/04/2013 16:41

Sorry, no bun fight from me. I like hearing different viewpoints.

Apologies if I derailed though.

Original poster
StealthPolarBear · 04/04/2013 16:43

Oh OK, agree with that. This thread just seems to hace ended up being about after school activities and the practicialities of getting them there - and there are suggestions that it's one of the reasons women choose not to work. Which is fine. But tbh it can only tip the balance surely, no one arranges their career around their child's beavers?

OP posts:
crumblingpile · 04/04/2013 16:46

"But why bother nurturing their talent when they'll not be able to use it as a grown up at 4.30 on a Tuesday because their child has a flower arranging class?"

Grin
rubyrubyruby · 04/04/2013 16:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
StealthPolarBear · 04/04/2013 16:51

Oh OK, just couldn't see anyuwehrre where it had been assumed you were a SAHP, so assumed it was to me...lost track completely now.
And I don't mind a bit of derailing, do plenty myself. Please avoid turning this into a Benedict Cumerbatch or whatever his name is thread though.

OP posts:
Wishiwasanheiress · 04/04/2013 16:53

I have absolutely no idea what it is u are trying to discuss, am possibly interested just don't get it. Ur title is pants tbh, sorry but its right unclear.

Please re explain? Ill try then to answer :)

Original poster
StealthPolarBear · 04/04/2013 16:57

OK "Women have their little careers till they have babies. Then they do as little as possible [in the world of work], preferably not working at all after that"
is an attitude I think is quite prevalent in the people around me, and it annoys me, with its assumptions that women's careers are disposable. It also annoys me that men are never questioned about "how they cope" or "whether they're going to go part time" or even stop entirely. Hope that's clearer.

OP posts:
blueshoes · 04/04/2013 17:06

"But why bother nurturing their talent when they'll not be able to use it as a grown up at 4.30 on a Tuesday because their child has a flower arranging class?"

Good one!

sweetkitty · 04/04/2013 17:18

I'm a SAHM preDC I had a good job in London with over an hours commute each way and I also travelled a lot for work.

When DD1 was born I did intend to return to work but the nursery fees were astronomical and some weeks I would have hardly seen her Mon to Fri.

As a family we made the decision to relocate to Scotland, got a far larger house on one wage, DHs career took off and we had another 3 children.

Unlike about 90% of families around here we don't get free childcare from family and nursery/childminder/afterschool would be too expensive for 4 (our choice to have 4 I know).

I feel virtually unemployable now though Hmm that's the downside.

I couldn't care less if anyone else works full time or what they do with their children, each one of us makes the right decision for our own family and circumstances. I don't think WOHMs are wrong or neglectful, it's their choice and as a woman I'm glad we can all make that choice.

I do get annoyed when my WOHM friends say "oh SK it's alright for YOU you don't need to work, it's do hard working and juggling childcare" these are the ones that's have family childcare, trips to Disneyworld and 2 new cars in the drive. They could quite easily be SAHMs if they down scaled their lifestyle but they don't want to and that's their choice but don't berate me for doing it. There are families I know where 2 parents have to work as well I'm not saying that every family could have a SAHP, I'm not that naive. As a SAHM I would never ever turn round and say "well it's ok for you out working for your cars and holidays and having free childcare" I just wouldn't as that's rude so why so they say it to me?

Anyway make your choice and be happy with it and did what everyone else is doing Grin

scottishmummy · 04/04/2013 17:20

Stealth just because you start thread doesn't mean it won't digress,I don't think it's silly at all
After school activities are generally seen as mum task,extension of parenting
I've never seen,read,heard expectation dad accompany to classes in way mum expected to