Women have their little careers till they have babies. Then they do as little as possible, preferably not working at all after that

[StealthPolarBear]

I am infuriated by this attitude which seems to be prevalent. After women have had babies they only work if they have to, and go part time if they can. But I can't put into words why I work - why wouldn't I? I work for the same reasons as I did before I had children. I work for the same reasons as DH works.
Either of us could give up work and we'd cope. But that was true pre-children. Women continuing to work FT seems to be a slur on their man's ability to 'provide'.

Satsuki, the solution to working long and stressful hours is not necessarily going pt. It could just be to work normal and non-stressful hours.

blueshoes

I think this is where many of the bun fights start regarding wohm/sahm. Not that I'm suggesting this is one at all, in fact i think we are all being very nice.

You see it that you are raising your children with help of nursery and au pair, another wohm may see it as although she is working she is 100% raising her dc not mentioning the au pair has any input. Straight away 2 different beliefs.

Now, personally I feel if I was working, with childcare assistance that I would not be raising my children, somebody else would be. Now a million rants from others thinking differently is not going to change my view because it is personal to me, the same as other views are personal to others.

I think this belief system is the deciding factor for women and men when choosing whether one /share time at sahp

Just wanted to say that I think potatoprints always does a lovely job of articulating what I'd like to say on this topic .

I am the woman in your title as I love staying at home with my two girls aged 10 weeks and nearly 2. We are not rich and money is tight but I think being a sahm is a job in its own right. I respect women who choose to return to work and for them this may be the right choice. But not for me. If we have a third or even a fourth child I would be spending so much money in childcare that it would be pointless to return to work anyway even if I wanted to. I would like to return to part time work when the youngest child is at school. I trained as a teacher so would try to fit in with school hours as much as possible.

I think women should stop bashing each other for their choices - I don't think there is an assumption that women will give up their career to have babies. In fact I think the assumption is the other way around, that women who stay at home are in the minority. Although it does depend on where you live. We recently moved from London to the west of Ireland. Here in Ireland there are many more sah Mums and larger families in general.

if housewife is maintained by one waged male caught in long hour culture,this could be alleviated by housewife working
by placing responsibility solely onto one partner that means they tied into work
if the housewife worked potentially the waged partner could reduce hours,be more balanced in approach

potatoprints, after children are in school, I admit to finding it hard to see the contribution of ft SAHM as being equal to a ft WOHM because WOHM somehow do what SAHM's do (you would probably disagree) but also hold down a job at the same time.

If women place their home and hearth at the epicentre of their lives with no tangible stake in the wealth-producing external society, it is difficult to see how they would not end up consciously or subconsciously marginalised even with the best of intentions. Their contribution to society becomes tied up with their dh's more tangible contribution but that still puts women in the dependent and auxillary position when why shouldn't they be out there as well?

the solution to working long and stressful hours is not necessarily going pt. It could just be to work normal and non-stressfulhours.

Tell that to a lawyer, or a midwife, or a nurse.

Satsuki, do you know your dcs' teachers personally before they started teaching them?

My children aren't at school yet, and I will hopefully go back to work then, but only if people such as yourself haven't totally made me unemployable by seeing my choice to stay home to look after my children as not being useful.

I am surprised you reduce your dh's job to just a purchaser of building supplies. That is one part of a organisation that provides needed goods and services to society and creates jobs and wealth/taxes that keep the economy going.

Dh sees his job is as useful as the food it puts on the table. If he lost it he'd get another one. I'm not quite as replaceable as stay at home mother to our children.

Even if you dismiss people who purchase building supplies, we must all be grateful for the thousands of men and women who apparently put their family's needs aside to work ft and possibly even anti-social shifts and foreign postings so that we can have doctors, nurses, social workers, firemen, police, armed forces and teachers.

Did I imply that I dismissed any of those professions or even that they shouldn't do them? No, I am happy they are happy in their professions. I just don't want to see my role dismissed as you seem to find it very unimportant.

I was an aupair once, I took care of someelse's children for money all 50£ a week of it was my role more important then as they weren't mine or was it more important to society because I helped mc mums and dads go off and do very important things?

Anyway i think we are going in circles now, so I will leave you to it.

Whiny

Thank you so much, I am chuffed. At school whenever I saw the word articulate in reference to anything I had written, it usually had "in" before it.

potatoprints: "I think this belief system is the deciding factor for women and men when choosing whether one /share time at sahp"

How about changing this belief system then? Because that is why is primarily holding women back.

I must be lazy, unambitious, surrendered, a bit thick et

Ah well you may be all those things mrsdevere, but at least you're in good company

Good ideas, SM. if that's what works for your family then DO IT and be happy I say . In our house DH adores his profession so it's really not a burden at all for him to put in the long hours and travel that it requires AND I like doing stuff with/for the children and puttering around the house so we're happy with that arrangement but I can understand how other couples might not be. At the end of the day, happy adults, happy kids is the name of game, no?

I wohm in a full time managerial position, but still raise my children 100% of the time. I just have input of others in addition to that.

I really wouldnt want my dds to sahm. When I had my first I thought it would be nice to do to have a relax but now 5 years on when I am in a managerial role and my friends cant even get part time waitressing or shop jobs I am glad I didnt. I wouldnt want my dds to do that as this recession shows we never know what might happen.

Are fathers who work not raising their children then?

Satsuki, I am a lawyer and I can work pt if I want. It is a question of finding the right field and company. But I find a significant number of women lawyers just give up work or go very pt when they have dcs, so I don't see many working lawyer mothers in my position, which makes me sad.

You have young pre-school children but you will very soon have to leave your children with teachers aka unvetted strangers for more than 6 hours a day. I hope you are fine with teachers raising them in that time.

If your dh loses his job, one option is he could replace you as the SAHP and you find work instead?

My aupair helps me with the dcs, but I don't really see her as raising my dcs. In fact, she has just given notice and was very concerned how to break the news to them. Unfortunately on holiday, I inadvertently blurted to my dcs that I was having to look for another aupair and both dcs did not even skip a beat, as was the case when we changed earlier aupairs or nursery staff. Honestly, there is no comparison between what an aupair/nanny/teacher means to a child to the role a parent plays in their lives. So I am genuinely puzzled that you think my aupair stranger of 18 months is raising my children. Do my dcs forget who their father is?

Are fathers who work not raising their children then? hmm

I dont know are they? Who said they wern't? Dh is a full time dad the second he gets home but does he change nappies, decide their lunches, clean them, take them to park?

No, I do more with our children, please don't dismiss the fact that I do the brunt of all the work.

I 100% would love to see an equal amount of men stay home as women, why is that not as important to people as women having as many jobs as men?

blueshoes

I do still see myself as out there, though not working for a living. My family are not all I am, although at times I am very much the centre of their needs. There are other times when I can quite easily disappear for a weekend and not be missed at all in terms of domestic activity.
I think as a sahp you can make your role what you like when the dc attend school. I know I did, not just with domestic stuff though but other things you wouldn't normally do if working.
Now I do a bit of what I want, a bit of domestic stuff, have fun with dd, educational trips and meeting friends, attending groups, lessons etc. Family night as don't see much of ds1 now. I help dh in his business sometimes, keep the brain cells going by making business suggestions. Hell I'm a business consultant as well

potatoprints, that is all very nice for you and your family, but sorry I cannot really see you as being out there in the big bad world.

It has to change in both directions.

More fathers going pt, staying at home and contributing to childcare and more mothers opting to stay in the workforce after maternity leave preferably ft.

blueshoes

How are my own beliefs holding other women back? Please explain.
Obviously wohm do not believe what I do otherwise they would be a sahm too.
Obviously I don't believe what wohm do , otherwise I would be wohm too.

rubyruby, feminism is also about awareness of the socio-political implications of your choice. Sorry you feel resentful, but you should nonetheless be aware of it.

until it is seen as responsible worthwhile choice, more men wont stay at home!

Why would you if you got all the same shit women do but with added pisstaking.