I don't know why I bother.....anyone else the same?

[mcmooncup]

I use Facebook. Put up funny posts, pictures...bla bla bla.

Everytime I post something I usually get about 30-40 likes.

Yet EVERYTIME I post something vaguely feminist. Blank. Zero. Occasional like.

I find it so depressing. Today I have posted about International Women's Day and linked to the letter in the Guardian.


How do we break down this wall of silence?

Why do people not want to be associated with 'ranty feminists'?

Our communication seems to be very isolating, even though it's not meant to be.

Qu's I ask myself....

Why can people not see what I can see?
Is the harm done to them so 'normal' that they can't see it?
Are they scared of being ostracised into this rad fem group if they speak out?
Are they afraid of losing their families/jobs/attractiveness to males?

I just wondered if we could have a discussion and try and learn what is it that non feminists hear when they hear a feminist talking. It might help us improve our communication.

[mcmooncup]

"You asked me why your non-fem fb friends blank your feminist postings. I suggested to you the reasons why."

Erm, where exactly did you say why? I have just seen you say "cos they is ranty" as the only explanation. I put that in the OP, so erm, thanks for your help .

What do you mean by ranty?

Come on. I know you can do better Patronising enough?

[mcmooncup]

Surely there must be some non-feminists out there who are able to describe what it is about feminism that actually annoys you? Not just that "it annoys me".

What annoys you?

Which bits don't you agree with?

Which bits bore you?

[vesuvia]

MTSgroupie - "you are putting words into my mouth"

For example?

[curryeater]

I am disappointed that non-feminists always get so cross on these threads because it makes them incoherent* and we never end up any better informed.

*or maybe they are just always incoherent, who knows

OK that was really sarcastic but I honestly do want to know what annoys non-feminist women so much about feminism. I mean it's not like I can't hypothesise. I do. But, you know, it's matronising (thanks LRD for that word) and it's not the same as someone actually telling you what they think.

[maidmarian2012]

I have been posting and sharing things to do with the "One Billion Rising" campaign against DV and nobody could have cared less.

Put a picture of a staffordshire bull terrier etc on and watch the likes roll in.

So yes, OP, I dont know why I bother.

[CarpeDiemCras]

I have family on my FB who have not all joined the century of the fruitbat. I also have colleagues & a range of acquaintances from across the political spectrum. I tend to avoid controversy

It's not because I don't have a view or wouldn't give it if asked, but I'm less likely to be proactive about it because I can't abide drama (and I've seen fairly innocuous FB posts kick off big time).

I would and have challenged people who posted things I deem offensive, but I tend to keep FB pretty lighthearted otherwise. Perhaps your friends are similar?

[namechangeguy]

I have seen people post in FWR before saying that they find it a bit of an intimidating place, and that they are worried about saying the wrong thing. Might it be worth asking the same questions in AIBU? That is a fairly lively board, and you might find people feel more at ease responding. Just a thought.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

True, stick.

curry - I can't take the credit. I forget who used the word first but I loved it so keep using it.

[rosabud]

There has been a lot of argument/ discussion on this thread and others about whether or not feminists "patronise" women who are so influenced by the patriarchy that they cannot understand the arguments of feminist thinking without finding it "ranty" or "boring."

I don't think feminists patronise women, I think most feminists ardently attempt to explain to others why they think the way they do.

However, there are some excellent examples of patronising language on this thread and they include:

"Might it be worth asking......"
"you might find......"
"just a thought"
??.everything will be rosy?
?When you only have a hammer, everything has to look like a nail? (my personal favourite)
?Please feel free to write this off?..?
?I am at a loss???
?I offered a few thoughts?.?
?Genuine thanks to those who gave a considered reply?

Just so we are all clear what a patronising tone really does sound like.

[mabongwen]

I don't comment or like feminist posts on FB and I don't identify myself as one. I don't find feminists annoying or "ranty", the honest truth is and to my own shame, I don't understand the entire concept. I obviously want equality for women and do feel that women are sometimes assumed or told they are the primary care givers of children by society and therefore should be kept in the house and kitchen, and I disagree with this wholeheartedly. I also want equal pay equal rights.

However, the part of the concept I don't understand is the "importance" of DV,rape,child abuse. For me (and I could be wrong) these are criminal acts. And are unjust by their definition of being illegal. Yes more women are victims of DV (I know this all too well,unfortunatley) but men do suffer it too, and I feel violence against men can sometimes be swept under the carpet by feminism sometimes. Its my opinion that violence against anyone is unjust regardless of gender,age or race.

But I digress, the main reason is I don't feel confident enough that I know enough to truly partake in feminism. I've tried reading the literature or the blogs but I just don't get the larger picture due to my missunderstanding on criminal acts and their relationship to feminsm.

Sorry if I didn't make sense, and typing on my phone causes me typo problems xx

[UptoapointLordCopper]

"I just find the constant banging of feminist drums to be boring." You know, I'm a bit sick of this too. Can we have equality NOW please so we can stop this drum-banging?

[mcmooncup]

mabongwen I think that's a really important point you have raised about making the connect about general inequality and violence and dv. I can absolutely see feminism would appear ranty if there is no connection made between sexism and dv, and dv is just seen as another criminal offense.

In a rush, but that's a really key communication thing/error for feminists, thank you.

[mcmooncup]

The short answer btw is that feminists see DV as a gendered crime. i.e. a power exploitation crime of men vs. a.n.other (mainly women but also other men).

[mcmooncup]

The crime of DV and rape can only exist when there is a power differential and men have more power than women / other men/ children.

That's why it is seen as a feminist issue.

But I'm in a rush and sure someone will explain better.

[namechangeguy]

Not long after I first joined this board, I got a real chewing out from a poster who is no longer around. She has typed a considered replay to a question of mine. I had read it, and carried on the conversation. She was very angry that I had not acknowledged her reply. She said that a little 'thank you' was the done thing on here, if someone can be bothered to reply to you specifically.

Now months later, I am being patronising because I say thank you to those who replied to my post. You, Rosabud, are out of order. ?Genuine thanks to those who gave a considered reply? means exactly that.

[mcmooncup]

Namechangeguy
You can't please everyone on an Internet forum. Your post now acts as a diversion.
You didn't mean it that way....it was taken that way....shrug......explain better next time. Move on.

[namechangeguy]

Explain better than 'thank you'? Jeez, and you wonder why feminism has a communication problem.

[mcmooncup]

It wasn't the thank you I don't think, it was the "to those of you who gave a considered response", implying that some people didn't offer a considered response. It didn't offend me by the way, I don't tend to feel patronised.

I do wonder why feminism has a communication problem yes. I'm starting to think it's just actually that people just simply believe and fail to critically analyse the powerful cultural narrative that all feminists are man-hating, bitter, ugly, single women.

Because no-one has said which part of feminism they don't agree with. The hatred seems simply based on a very negative stereotype.

[curryeater]

mcmooncup, it's not that no one has replied substantively - mabongwen has made a good point. I think she is saying something like "DV is already illegal, so what do feminists want?" - or something to that effect.

[mcmooncup]

Yes, agreed curry, mabongwen make a really good point. And I am not sure it is immediately clear what feminism has to do with DV.

[mabongwen]

hey all, sorry been a busy morning.

Glad you all got the just of my post [happy]

Yes, I don't think all feminists are ugly single women, some are more passionate than others but I wouldn't then say they "bang on" about it. If you are passionate about something others can sometimes perceive it as being outspoken or brash, but that's there problem not you'rs. I am very passionate about animal welfare, and the rights of animals, and I am pretty sure acquaintances think I am banging a drum over and over again too

To answer the post regarding DV is to do with stronger male, inflicting his will on a woman. I just don't see it (I know this is my own fault) DV occurs in same sex marriages, women against men. I can understand why feminists are active in stopping it because it does occur more to women. But like Curry said in short it is all ready an illegal act, where the police now have great powers to remove an abusive partner from the home.

From my personal experience;

My ex-fiance had been getting more violent, the arguments had started to turn physical. Holding my wrists, pushing me against walls, even pulling my hair. One evening the argument boiled up to him punching me. I knew enough was enough, I phoned the police. They removed him from my apartment for 24 hours. This gave me long enough to pack up all my belongings that were of great importance and move back home with my mother.

So for me the DV is a part of the agend/portfolio that I personally can't get my head around. It's not feminism, It's not feminists it's just a personal issue for me.

Other parts of feminism I don't have a great understanding of, I am working on educating myself on. I think other women can sometimes think they are being attacked by feminists which is why they don't/won't join in, I personally don't think that others understand the passion feminists have for the cause and sometimes you can come (not you personally) in all guns blazing, and it can frighten or intimidate the poor lady. Perhaps that is where the communication error comes in.

[curryeater]

Mabongwen, thank you for that, brilliantly clear

[mabongwen]

thanks there's a first time for everything as they say, and me being clear is one of those times