I don't know why I bother.....anyone else the same?

[mcmooncup]

I use Facebook. Put up funny posts, pictures...bla bla bla.

Everytime I post something I usually get about 30-40 likes.

Yet EVERYTIME I post something vaguely feminist. Blank. Zero. Occasional like.

I find it so depressing. Today I have posted about International Women's Day and linked to the letter in the Guardian.


How do we break down this wall of silence?

Why do people not want to be associated with 'ranty feminists'?

Our communication seems to be very isolating, even though it's not meant to be.

Qu's I ask myself....

Why can people not see what I can see?
Is the harm done to them so 'normal' that they can't see it?
Are they scared of being ostracised into this rad fem group if they speak out?
Are they afraid of losing their families/jobs/attractiveness to males?

I just wondered if we could have a discussion and try and learn what is it that non feminists hear when they hear a feminist talking. It might help us improve our communication.

[AnyFucker]

lemon you haven't understood that other thread, then

you obviously gave Mr Lorry Driver non-discouraging signals

you gave him eye contact, you grinned first, you felt safe because he was bound by the change of colour of traffic lights to move off and away from you

I wouldn't have a problem with that fleeting mutual appreciation

that other thread isn't talking about that...but of course it does suit some people to tar all feminists as dour, fun-sapping man haters

[FastidiaBlueberry]

Yep ain't it the truth AnyFucker.

Lemonmuffin why do you feel the need to misrepresent the thread in that way?

Or perhaps I'm being unfair, perhaps you genuinely don't understand it.

[Woofers]

I'd like them your obviously lacking in open minded, feminist Facebook friends

[AnyFucker]

lemon if you and Mr Lorry Driver had been the only people sat in a carriage on a late night train that had no stops for a long time, would you have felt quite so happy with the situation ?

[mcmooncup]

It is like there are different realities for different people.

Which is fine in itself, I get that life is like that - there are many cognitive biases in how we perceive the world.

But genuinely I don't get what people who think we have equality think about the very clear statistics that show women are still not treated with equality (work, pay, poverty, death by violence, victims of violence, rape, representation in positions of power) - what do people who call others who wish to discuss these issues 'ranty feminists' actually think about these statistics? Do you think they are not true?

[FloraFox]

mcmooncup they may think a variety of things but for those issues that are not related to violence I've heard things like "women don't want it" or "it's just the way things are" soooo often. So not denying the statistics necessarily but denying that there is a systemic underlying cause that can and should be addressed.

[SconeRhymesWithGone]

Thank a feminist!

www.nownys.org/thankfeminist.html

[Paleodad]

LRD thanks, that really clarifies things

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Oh, good!

[BelaLugosisShed]

I posted my disgust at someone "sharing" a photo of a truck with a painted tailgate, the image was of a woman bound and gagged on the flatbed of the truck and was very lifelike, it was sick and quite horrific.
I pointed out that if it were a picture of a black person then it would be an arrestable hate crime only to be told it was just a joke and they were admiring the artwork . I posted back that images of sexual violence towards women were never "a joke" and was told to "fuck off if I don't like it".

Someone else taken off my fb - This man is married and in his late 40s.

[Wishiwasanheiress]

I wonder if its perspective? I value maternity rights for example because they were fought for improvement during my working life. I saw the before and after consequences. For those younger maybe they don't notice as so much has been won. I mean there's a flipping long way to go yet, but not as far as before maybe.

Not sure I'm explaining well but hoping u get the gist?! :/

[Darkesteyes]

Same idiot ive mentioned upthread has now shared something else about how the equivalent of a vibrator (one of those fake vaginas) should have a rape cry in its repertoire.
Final straw. Going to unfriend Fuck the possible comeback.

[FastidiaBlueberry]

Oh my darkesteyes. Horrible. I wouldn't want a friend like that either. Might be tempted to ask him if he realises he sounds like someone who has bought into rape myths.

[FastidiaBlueberry]

Ou actually, what's prob more effective, is to ask him why. Make him bluster or repeat the rape myth straight out and then ask of he's aware that 90% of rapes aren't reported and that of those which are, only 4% are false allegations. Or you cd ask him to guess the figures.

[Darkesteyes]

Hes not really a friend Went to school with him and he ended up on my fb after the school reunion 2 yrs ago. Just memorized what it said on the link. It was about the fake vagina having a realistic rape cry sound system. Vile.
Have left a comment.

[AnyFucker]

darkest...ignore any comeback

the guy is a cock

[mcmooncup]

God, darkest, who even makes these products, surely that is illegal?!?! Inciting violence?! I'd be interested to follow that up, start some noise

My fb post the other day actually started a debate that wasn't too vile in the end. Some dude wrote "when is man's day?" and then a few more joined in and we managed to look at the 'easy setting for white man' blog, anti-feminist bingo, and the 'shut up it there is a mans day" blog and insults were only at ignorant level not abusive. That was nice

[Darkesteyes]

I dont think its actually a product thats available. The way it reads to me is that they are saying it should be available with a rape cry. Still awful. Still perpetuating myths.

[mcmooncup]

Oooooh sorry ! I was totally horrified there...

I wish some of the people who posted would come back to the thread and post about what it is that puts them off........I am really still interested in which part of the message is so off-putting from feminism.

I was just reading this article on the DM website - it really is quite shocking the level of hatred at feminism. I really am at a loss about which part of the message is so upsetting for people.

Don't rape women. What is so offensive about that?

Don't be violent to women. What is offensive about that?

Pay women the same as men. What is offensive about that?

Don't be a domestic slave to men. What is offensive about that?

Don't presume you have to provide sexual services to a man. What is offensive about that?

[SplitHeadGirl]

I really believe women are scared of identifying with feminism because they don't want to be seen as being against men, as that would make life somewhat more difficult for them, as well as potentially take away one of the ways some women get their self esteem...from men's validation. Most women are fully aware a helluva lot of men desire them to be deferential, demure, and in awe of them.

They see the term 'feminism' as being about pushing women ahead...ahead of men, and because they rely so heavily on men then this doesn't sit easily with them.

I am lucky (enlightened??) in that I can't care less about men's feelings about me, outside of my son, husband and father...I know they love me so that is that. I take a lot of pleasure in calling myself a feminist. Partly because it can lead into a good debate/discussion with interested people, and partly because it can rub dopey people's noses up the wrong way!! .

[FastidiaBlueberry]

I think once you don't care what men think of you, it really liberates you to say what you think and believe. And to explore what you believe.

[SplitHeadGirl]

Completely!!! It is SO liberating - I feel actually quite powerful, just being able to say what I believe without worrying what people (men) might think!!

I enjoy having the time and energy for the things that REALLY count, like my children, my job, my husband, ME....and not wasting time worrying about men of all things.

[FastidiaBlueberry]

Yep. And a lot of men really hate it.

They sort of sense that you really don't care and that a piece of power which they take for granted and aren't really even aware of normally, is absent.

It sort of unsettles them.

[mcmooncup]

I know what you mean completely about it being liberating not being unduly concerned about what men think.

But I also remember that transition period from being a women who didn't realise how much I was validated by men to where I am now.

There was quite a period of doubt, fear and being vulnerable as some men kicked back against you for 'Changing' and being 'obnoxious/any insult available'. I found it really really unsettling to be seen as 'against' men, because I wasn't and never have been. It is definitely an easier life in many ways just to play along to the rules of the patriarchy, not 'cause a fuss' and it took me a good few years to be completely comfortable being an open feminist. And even now get wobbles.....

I guess it's the standard change curve that people go through in becoming feminist.

Denial - fear - doubt - shall I quit? - understanding - acceptable - moved on/ confident.

It's really hard not to sound patronising to someone who is in denial .