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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why ban page 3?

582 replies

jackburton · 12/02/2013 20:44

Hi, this is my first post, please be gentle :) . I'm looking for some thoughtful discussion on page 3 and the objectification of women, my wife suggested posting here. Any recommendations for good articles or feedback would be great.

My main issue with a lot of the traditional discussion on this issue is that there seems to be an implicit assumption of passivity and conformity in women that I can't really relate to as a man (or feel is present in many of the women in my life). I don't particularly worry about my son seeing body building or gay lifestyle magazines or other fetishised representations of men because I see them as part of a range of different types of lifestyle that he could adopt. I would think it quite alien that the occasional image of men in this way would significantly affect me (or him). In contrast, advertising and lifestyle magazines aimed at women seem to impose a very disturbing level of conformity and one that I feel would not be acceptable to most men. Frankly a lot of female targeted products seem to objectify (in the sense of judging purely by appearance) and be misogynist (in the sense of appearing to gain pleasure from and dwelling on the humiliation of women, particularly if their superficial appearance is non-conformist). In contrast most pornographic products aimed at men include a great diversity of female personality types, some are passive but many are not, Jordan being a classic example. They aren't treated as objects in the sense that their desire is critical to their appeal, sex dolls are relatively undesirable. While there is certainly some pornography and lifestyle discussions that appear to encourage pleasure in the suffering of women I feel this is in the minority with most magazines presenting their female models as stars who are the centre of attention and whose happiness and desire is an important part of their appeal.

My initial feelings about the campaign against page 3 is that these images are being judged assuming they were present in the kind of magazine targeted at women i.e. they are a conforming image and that they would lead to humiliation of those that didn't conform. I think the majority of male culture is not oppressive in that way. Personally I find mainstream female culture to be much more of a problem for women's liberation than these products. What am I missing?

OP posts:
Doesmybumlookbiginthiss · 24/02/2013 21:24

@Plentyofpubes

"I don't know whether to laugh or be sick." Yes, the truth does have that effect on people.

@Flora "thanks for telling me what to find important. Thanks also for agreeing there's nothing special about men's rights to leer at women in public. Hang on, what was your argument again?"

No problem...I'm glad we can both agree page three is a non issue. Obviously, people are so pampered in this modern world that they have have so much time on their hands that they can even consider it.

kim147 · 24/02/2013 21:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Doesmybumlookbiginthiss · 24/02/2013 21:27

Why was LojinJoins comment deleted...they were just pointing out facts?

FloraFox · 24/02/2013 21:30

bum read again. Try engaging your brain this time.

AmandaPayne · 24/02/2013 21:30

They are aren't they Kim. It's like buses...

Doesmybumlookbiginthiss · 24/02/2013 21:32

Kim

Yes..it enhances men's lives!

I don't think it does either.

Doesmybumlookbiginthiss · 24/02/2013 21:33

@Flora

I would if I could... try opening your eyes...it's been deleted!

FloraFox · 24/02/2013 21:36

I was responding to your comment to me. Again, try to engage brain before responding.

Doesmybumlookbiginthiss · 24/02/2013 21:40

"I was responding to your comment to me. Again, try to engage brain before responding."

Which comment? I have made many. Get your act together...use quotations...it helps!

FloraFox · 24/02/2013 21:46

Your habit of using @s should make it easier for you to follow. You really don't have anything intelligent to add to this discussion. Now you're down to "it enhances men's lives". Weak.

Doesmybumlookbiginthiss · 24/02/2013 21:50

@Flora

"it enhances men's lives"

Weak...not from my point of view. :-)

kim147 · 24/02/2013 21:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Doesmybumlookbiginthiss · 24/02/2013 22:03

Kim...

Damn right...WW2 was won on the D-cups of Mansfield...they were inspirational to the troops. :-)

"I'm sure they have plenty of other opportunities to ogle women in the media."

So page three shouldn't be an issue then really...should it. No point in banning it if you are not going to ban all sexualisation of women in the media. Strewth what a drab horrid world that would be. I hope it never happens.

Sunnywithshowers · 24/02/2013 22:05

What about gay men?

FastidiaBlueberry · 24/02/2013 22:05

Just why are Mumsnet allowing this?

Seriously, why?

AmandaPayne · 24/02/2013 22:08

We could always, you know, stop talking to him.

Doesmybumlookbiginthiss · 24/02/2013 22:14

@Sunny

Gay men had their own icons at the time...however I am not up to scratch on GAY ww2 history but I'm sure they had their icons.

Doesmybumlookbiginthiss · 24/02/2013 22:17

@Blueberry

Are you saying that I should be silenced because I hold a different opinion from you? I am on topic.

kim147 · 24/02/2013 22:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub · 24/02/2013 22:25

"We will fight them on the beaches, we will do a painting of some breasts, we will never surrender." As Churchill almost said.

FastidiaBlueberry · 24/02/2013 22:28

I can point you all to some very good references from phrenology, which is excellent on the subject of human sexuality and at least as reliable as evo-bollocks.

Also more entertaining.

Sunnywithshowers · 24/02/2013 22:28

We X posted, bum. I meant page 3, not WWII.

Doesmybumlookbiginthiss · 24/02/2013 22:29

Hi Kim

"I don't really get the media obsession with the female body."

Increase your testosterone levels seventeen fold and you will!

"Women weren't sent out as strippers to help the troops."

Actually they were. Burlesque shows, but few and far between.

kim147 · 24/02/2013 22:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub · 24/02/2013 22:35