a question for the men here

[Mitchy1nge]

what makes you think you have anything of real value to bring to discussions about women's experiences and expectations?

obviously some men can make interesting contributions (although those sorts of men don't often announce themselves here) to some discussions but generally, on the whole, everything everywhere else is already pretty saturated in Male Voice so was just wondering where you got the idea from

Yes, it's all just a bit of a laugh, innit. Same with prostitution, it's a choice.

It's like misogynistic bingo with DD. We are very nearly on Full House.

Yeah, it's just a joke, god Hully, calm down!

FFS DD, can you really not see what you're saying??

mcmooncup The prize if we get all them is a feeling of total and utter despair.

Everyone justifies the behaviours they enjoy to themselves and often others: smokers, drinkers, druggies, prostitute/porn users.

Human nacher.

We'd have more hope as a species if people could just be honest with themselves, even if they didn't act on it, it would be a start...

Lately I haven't watched much porn that doesn't star myself but in the past I was mesmerised by the camera's obsession with schlong going in and out of various orifices and concluded that the men who liked watching that kind of thing must all be quite gay.

It definitely erodes the viewer's ability to connect and share pleasure nicely as far as my example has taught me anyway.

I think some men are scared to view porn as even problematic, because to do that would be to question themselves.

Like, I get it. The idea of porn, of watching other people have sex, is exciting and sexy and stuff. The reality is grim though.

I often wonder why "conscience" is more easily drowned out by some than others. Where's the little voice that whispers at three in the morning, "It's not really great is it? Not what our parents would have wished for us, or we wish for our children. Not really loving and healthy and kind."

Self-gratification is a mighty strong driver.

If only women would be more like men they would realise porn is fun.

Still thinking of men as the default aren't you DD.

Gas prices are going up again, perhaps DD will suggest his wife take up pole dancing to make ends meet.

I think people generally have trouble questioning their own behaviours, because god forbid they may have to conceed that they're involved with something that's damaging to others. It would interfere with their self-view too much. It makes me sad that people are so unwilling to do that and develop as people, though.

You know, if porn is so great and the women WANT to do it and blah blah blah, why don't men just go out and find someone to do all that stuff with? Is it because, generally, the stuff that takes place in porn is quite abusive and nobody would do it without a massive pay cheque?

Because honestly, I'm no prude, but I wouldn't prolapse my anus for anyone.

"Because honestly, I'm no prude, but I wouldn't prolapse my anus for anyone"

If I nominate that for quote of the week, do you think it will make the roundup?

I am very conflicted re porn. I see no reason why someone should not watch two consenting adults engaging in whatever they want to engage in. And the porn stars may not enjoy the sex itself but, assuming they are consenting, they enjoy the money.

I do also think that plenty of women enjoy porn too and are happy to watch it. Maybe less than men but I would guess a very substantial minority have enjoyed watching porn at some point in their lives.

OTOH, so much of porn these days is misogynistic and bordering on rape where the woman suddenly miraculously enjoys the forced sex. That is a really dangerous fantasy to show to young men.And very little is like real sex, and it is freely available to teenagers and young adults. There is no question that it does encourage some very warped and, yes, misogynistic attitudes to those who think that it represents "normal" sex. Porn was not always like this. I am not sure how "reader's wives" morphed into three way penetration in a petrol station or why it did.

That, however, is not what this thread is about. It is about why I post on these boards and whether I have a right to.

Oh Norma you've made my day!

Tortoise thank you for sharing your experience.

Hully, great points.

Great post tortoise.

I didn't give up meat because I don't like the taste of chicken nuggets, and I didn't give up porn because I am a prude who hate sex.

I gave up both because the industries that brought me both are unethical cruel, and violent.

And because I am an intelligent woman with a conscience.

I would be very surprised if dd really has a wife as I can't imagine a woman staying married to him. His ideas about what a woman should enjoy during sex lead me to believe if he actually was married she would be very dissatisfied at least.

actually thread is not so much about the legitimacy of male contribution but the utility

Yes, and it's not a personal 'why does Larry post here' thread, either, though that post did make me smile.

I don't see what there is to be 'conflicted' about with porn.

I also never understand this 'well women enjoy watching it, innit'.

If I pointed out that many addicts enjoy cocaine, would that make it ok? And would it be fine for us privileged Westerners to continue funding a trade in the stuff? I think not, and it seems to me porn is the same. The question of who enjoys it is a red herring.

LRD,

"Yes, and it's not a personal 'why does Larry post here' thread, either, though that post did make me smile."

I as in I, as a man, not I as in I, Larrygrylls. I am sure that is an acceptable use of the first person singular.

Mitchy,

I guess you have to define utility. I do think that one ought to bear in mind that this space is a subsection of a parenting website (admittedly called Mumsnet) where parents of both sexes are welcomed. Also the moderators of this board have expressed the fact that men are welcome. As a counterquestion, when there must be so many feminist and women only spaces which men are entirely unlikely to ever come across (or certainly in far fewer number) why is this particular site, with its attendant males, so popular among women who would prefer ignorant men like me to keep shtum?

Thanks for clarifying. I did assume you meant that - it was simply an amusingly egocentric turn of phrase, but perhaps that was intentional. Who knows.

the unexamined life, sunshine

I'm still confused about how my link to Manboobz (never thought I'd type Manboobz that many times) has started DD etc justifying porn.

I am certain everyone here is already aware of it, but just in case, I think it's a good idea to research 'Cognitive dissonance'.
If nothing else, it allows you to reduce pro porn, misogyny to a Petri dish, which for me helps keep their nonsense at arms length a bit.

Here's a link (please DD, don't use it to justify porn)

www.simplypsychology.org/cognitive-dissonance.html.

Note- at the bottom of the short overview, psychologists have started to argue that 'dissonance' is really nothing more than guilt.

And please everyone, don't be put off Manboobz, it really has nothing to do with porn.

It was the word "boob" it leapt out and smothered the small bit of the brain that nearly thinks. It appeared to them as ManBOOBz

I am currently headdesking at how far this thread that was basically about about derailment has been derailed.