a question for the men here

[Mitchy1nge]

what makes you think you have anything of real value to bring to discussions about women's experiences and expectations?

obviously some men can make interesting contributions (although those sorts of men don't often announce themselves here) to some discussions but generally, on the whole, everything everywhere else is already pretty saturated in Male Voice so was just wondering where you got the idea from

For someone who has been to Cambridge you seem to be having a hard time grasping basic politics larry.

Larry, thanks for your posts this afternoon, they haven't half given me a good laugh. :o

Which is the least oppressed demographic on the planet?

White heterosexual men.

AA,

I studied science, not politics. Some of the things that pass for political basics (at least here) are surprisingly illogical and unscientific.

Once again, you attack ad hominem, making my point for me.

Er, no, that's not what I'm driving at Larry.

You are either very stupid or very dishonest.

I do NOT believe that black people, or Jews, or women, should be allowed to set up separate areas where they can be free to be almost as nasty to individuals in the groups who oppress them as the oppressor groups are and I have never said such a thing and nor would I and if I didn't know that you're as silly as you are, I would be offended that you had made that up about me.

But tbh I can't take you seriously and so I just find it a little bit funny that you desperately flail around to find mad arguments I've never made so that you can knock them down.

What a way to spend your time on the internet.

I'm thinking of that scene in Toy Story where Buzz says to Woody "You are a strange, sad little man. You have my pity".

I studied science too. Still manage a basic grasp of politics.

Oh well, you have made lots of points for us over this afternoon. Just thought I'd be generous and give you one back

"I'm thinking of that scene in Toy Story where Buzz says to Woody "You are a strange, sad little man. You have my pity"."

Ad hominem, once again making my point for me.

larry, you have yet to demonstrate, or provide any reason, why not allowing men into women-only spaces is detrimental to men.

The reason women, and other oppressed groups, object to being excluded from white male spaces is because those spaces are powerful.

A group of women who are meeting in a woman-only space, are not doing so because we secretly run the country, you know. Women aren't in the position of power.

I think you need to think about what nuances the word 'discriminate' has.

It probably is relevant that you studied at a university that attracts a large proportion of privileged people, and the fact you've previously cited this as a reason you're discriminated against suggests you don't really understand power dynamics. I don't see how pointing that out is ad hominem, really.

And yet it is so hard for them what with all these Muslims oppressing them with their halal butchers and women oppressing them with their, um, uppity ways misandry.

It must be a nightmare.

"I do NOT believe that black people, or Jews, or women, should be allowed to set up separate areas where they can be free to be almost as nasty to individuals in the groups who oppress them as the oppressor groups are and I have never said such a thing"

"So a few black people in London would discriminate against me if I went there because I'm white. So what? That has no impact on me at all, because I don't need to go there."

So, yes you do believe that. As you said "so what, that has no impact on me at all".

In my country I am systematically being denied rights over my body, women have about 17% of the government power. We have never had a female president.

At the last election they tried to put laws in place that would allow a religious hospital (which many of the closest to me are) to deny me an abortion if it would kill me to not have one.

I voted against laws last year that would force women to undergo invasive ultrasounds. We called them dildo cams on the fertility boards I used to frequent if that gives you an insight to their use. I voted against laws that wanted to force 17 yer olds to get parental permission for their abortions.

Politicians want to make it OK for employers to ask me why I am on birth control, because if I am using it to be in charge of my own fertility like some kind of slut they shouldn't have to include it in my insurance.

In your country women in NI women are also being made to fight for autonomy over their own bodies. If you can't understand that, keep referring to Israel, an entire country.

In the rest of the world women are abused, raped, sold and hidden from view, by every race of man.

where is my country where is the country where women are on top? Until you can find that one just shut the fuck up.

There is something quite distasteful about talking about white people being 'forced' to live with black people as if it were something unpleasant, btw.

Did you really mean that?

"It probably is relevant that you studied at a university that attracts a large proportion of privileged people, and the fact you've previously cited this as a reason you're discriminated against suggests you don't really understand power dynamics. I don't see how pointing that out is ad hominem, really."

LRD,

You always attack arguments and never ad hominem. I respect you for that and would not accuse you of doing what you never do.

You disagree with me, you seek to disprove my arguments and sometimes you put it strongly. Good for you! You make me think about things I may not otherwise do and I appreciate it.

This is not a man asserting his privilege in approving or disapproving of a woman, it is a person making a judgment about another person's posting style, something any person has a right to do.

Did you really mean that?

I mean being forced to live in an area where they are discriminated against (see my Telegraph link above).

LRD, going back a bit now, but I find it interesting what you say about being asked to tone down your arguments within academia - or give equal weight to different views, only one of which you believe to be right.
I find this fascinating [deletes boring bit of personal autobiography] - but the bit I find really interesting is the notion that "balance" is correct, that "balance" contains truth. It is really bizarre, and yet all-pervasive, and so so (obviously) pro-status quo. I mean we have a completely artificial, socially determined situation with respect to any views that are available, part of the discourse, at any given time and within any given subject, and it seems crazy that you are seen as more tending towards the truth if you give them all a chance rather than a rigorous analysis of their merits.

And it works! I mean if we could effectively establish as a minority, but mainstream view, that, say, 25% of humans have martian genes, people who didn't believe it, but honestly thought a fair few other people did, would treat this view with respect in the media. It drives me crazy!

{And this is why the coalition are getting away with all this benefits bashing crap - but that's for another thread]

And this is why the Cof E did not get women bishops - not because enough people thought that it was wrong, but because enough people who thought that it was right thought the other nutters had a view of such established credibility that it should be respected. ARGH!

[Grin] Carry on telling me what I believe Larry, it's hilarious and so relevant on this thread.

The things you quoted to "prove" your point do not prove your point.

Saying "so what" is not the same as saying "let's all do this".

Do you honestly not know this?

It is really funny that you are actually mansplaining to me what I believe.

Seriously, have you no sense of irony at all?

You couldn't make this up.

Ad hominem, once again making my point for me.

you should be grateful if she were because you're doing a shite job of it yourself.

Hey LRD - good for you, you plucky little filly.

I'm PMSL here.

Wish I didn't have to go out now, this is too entertaining.

F.B: " I think houses are for living in"

Four posts later

F.B: "I think houses are for investment, not living in, how dare you assert I ever said that"

LG: No, you said they were for living in.

F.B: You are mansplaining, telling me what I believe. It is hilarious.

:)

Lucky me, eh, fastidia.

I could have sworn I'd had plenty of mansplainers tell me I do attack ad hominem, but perhaps I've learned the error of my ways, eh?

"This is not a man asserting his privilege in approving or disapproving of a woman, it is a person making a judgment about another person's posting style, something any person has a right to do."

Your male privilege shines out from your every post larry. You obviously can't or don't want to see it. But it is there. You really do think it is OK to come on a thread and tell people how they should be debating - as in your post of 9:50 this morning. Without any touch of irony at all.

Amazing.

larry, I can't find the quotation you're attributing to fastidia. I can't find either of them, actually.

Are you getting them from another thread?

LRD - you are the chosen one. Perhaps we should direct all our comments through you.

Can you ask larry why he is deliberately misinterpreting what Fastidia said ad nausem (rather than ad hominem, gettit, gettit)?

Hello, literally time for one post, busy, busy, was ill the last couple of days, hence the mad amount of posts, all better now, so no time.

sabrina have saved your brilliant quote, just wanted to say thanks.

pan you still didn't acknowledge that some people did support you, and if you make friends with nasty people, you're judged by the company you keep, also, if you really were the pro feminist guy you made yourself out to be you would have dealt with everything nicely instead of throwing your toys out of the pram.

I was thinking about the earlier suggestion (was it Nicholas?) that there should be a button for men, where they can say they agree.
I think I need a button that tells others 'I think this guy is a fool, I will not be interacting with him' I have done that throughout the thread with certain fools that simply come here to make noise, and I must admit, I'm thinking, how do I let others know that I think said fool is a stirring, misogynist idiot, without climbing in to every fight.
I think MN needs thumbs-up/down on all comments. That would help men who are afraid to speak up, and others who don't wish to be derailed by the same fool making noise.

Oh yeah, before I rush off to catch-up on my life, if I had a button I'd switch you Larry off all together.

Just so we're clear, EVERY person who has countered Larry in any way, I agree with you, I'm grateful you took the time and energy out of your life to do so.

Also I notice you're posting on MN Larry, because if you posted that word Misandry on any other site dedicated to this stuff (sorry to mention Manboobz again) you would have your balls handed to you on a plate, with an explanation, that if you thought Misandry actually existed go join your fellow Reddit users in their delusional hate filled world!

Anyways back to reality... Hope that makes sense/spelling ok, rush, rush

Oh, oh, a link (again Larry please comment on skepchick, I'd love to see how far you got there!)

www.secularwoman.org/opportunity_%20and_%20access_freethought

A quote from link,
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.
Desmond Tutu