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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Five men facing death penalty after bus rape

522 replies

allthegoodnamesweretaken · 13/01/2013 19:15

BBC news link here

I'm feeling conflicted about this. Obviously what these men did was horrific, vile and unforgivable. But I just cannot agree with the death penalty.

I feel like I am somehow excusing what they did by not wanting them to be killed, and I can't emphasise enough how despicable I find their actions.

Does the fact that they violated the poor woman's human rights so violently and abhorrently mean they should have their right to life taken away too? Am i being too soft?

I suppose I am asking how you all feel about this, how do you think they should be punished? Also have you ever had your feminist views conflict with other principles, and how have you dealt with this?

OP posts:
TheMysteryCat · 14/01/2013 11:05

It doesna't matter what the crime is and whether it is against or by a male or female, I still don't agree with murdering anyone for any reason.

I believe in punishment and reform.

I didn't say that convicted criminals should get Sky tv and a suite at the Hilton, so please don't insinuate I did.

There are important social issues in India that need to be addressed in order to promote a change in values and equality.

By killing 6 men for this crime, it does nothing to achieve except to answer one act of brutality with another.

SamuraiCindy · 14/01/2013 11:09

LetsFaceTheMusic, no thanks I don't need to 'revisit my thought processes'. ReLly, do you think a Jew who did NO wrong in his/her lifetime, just tried tomlive a good life, is the same as a raping, murdering scumbag? Do you think these people are equal? Do you think they should get the same consideration as humans? Well, maybe you do who knows. But to me, humanity is about a damn sight more than biology.

SamuraiCindy · 14/01/2013 11:09

Sorry for typos...on iPad.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid · 14/01/2013 11:14

Revenge is not justice.

MadBusLady · 14/01/2013 11:16

I Agree With Trills.

AbigailAdams · 14/01/2013 11:17

"I'm sickened by how WOMEN think"

True colours coming out there, Wantstobefree.

SamuraiCindy · 14/01/2013 11:18

Reading through the thread, I am totally with Waynetta and WantsToBeFree. I can't believe people have actually made excuses for the rapists and also they are defending their right to a long life being cared for in a way they totally denied their victim. And to call the death penalty murder is laughable as it is putting it on an equal footing with what these men did to Jyoti. Honestly, I must be a harder person than I realized because I don't give a shit about these men's lives as they are worthless.

bakingaddict · 14/01/2013 11:18

It's the inequalities in Indian society and the huge chasm between the rich and the poor that means children are dying of preventable diseases in the slums.

It's the same inequality between the sexes that has seen some prominent Indian men publically state that Joyti was somehow to 'blame' for her rape. I'm against the death penalty but like in this country, rape and sexual assault needs to be given a higher priority with better conviction rates and tougher penalities otherwise any justice system sends out the message that rape is an inconsequential crime. This crime was expedited swiftly but I wonder how much of that was due to worldwide outrage

WantsToBeFree · 14/01/2013 11:19

TheMysteryCat,

You are confusing the death of innocent people with the execution of disgusting criminals.

You didn't imply the rapists should get Sky Tv, but you did say they deserve humane treatment, which makes me sick.

You think that men who committed a crime of such epic proportions against a woman are entitled to humanity? So you think people can just rape and brutalise women and then spend a few years in jail and "reform" themselves?

If I'm a criminal, this sounds great to me. I can kill, rape, mutilate and batter but I won't be punished and I'll still be safe. Fantastic! I'll just spend a few years in jail in relatively good conditions, (albeit without TV), and then claim that I'm "reformed" and get out of there.

What a lovely version of justice! It's great for criminals but not so much for victims.

You're advocating a society that protects the rights of people who commit heinous crimes against women. That's not feminist.

CelticPromise · 14/01/2013 11:20

I have no doubt that if it happened to my child I'd want them slowly tortured to death. But I would not be allowed to choose the punishment and rightly so. Answering brutality with brutality lowers a whole society.

There are no exceptions to my opposition to the death penalty. That doesn't make me pro-rape or pro-murder.

If you are considering the deterrent aspect, what do you make of the USA? Much higher murder rates than the EU countries where we do not put people to death.

CelticPromise · 14/01/2013 11:22

I think everyone is entitled to humane treatment.

Trills · 14/01/2013 11:22

I believe that all humans deserve humane treatment.

That belief does not affect men and women separately, there is nothing unfeminist about it.

WantsToBeFree · 14/01/2013 11:23

Abigail,

True colours? Yes, I am sickened by how women on this thread are making excuses for these men and advocating that they deserve "humane" treatment.

aufaniae · 14/01/2013 11:23

YANBU.

Supporting governments murdering people (even rapists and murderers) is always wrong, because if you allow the death penalty, innocent people WILL be killed.

It's not good enough to say you know these men are guilty. If you allow a government to kill people in the name of "justice", innocent people will be killed.

(It could be you! Would you sacrifice your life to see these men killed? No, I wouldn't either!)

Also it's completely hypocritical to say murder is morally wrong (for the public) but then OK for the state. If murder is morally wrong, it makes no difference morally if an individual murders someone, or a collection of individuals acting under the label "government" IMO.

mindosa · 14/01/2013 11:25

I would imagine that death is preferrable to life in an Indian prison.

I am against the death penalty in all cases so as horrific as this crime was, they should go to prison for life.

WantsToBeFree · 14/01/2013 11:27

Trills,

It does affect men and women separately. You are advocating the rights and entitlement of men who brutalised a woman. You are saying that they deserve humanity when they showed her none. You are essentially implying that its OK to brutalise a woman and that people who do should be treated well. If you think that isn't about feminism, then you don't understand feminism.

I can accept that people are against the death penalty. But advocating humane or easy conditions in prison for these men is so sick that it's giving me a migraine.

WantsToBeFree · 14/01/2013 11:30

Umm, nobody is saying murder is OK for the government but not the public.

We are saying that execution of heinous criminals should be an option. Obviously you can disagree.

Murder of an innocent and the execution of a depraved criminal aren't the same thing. It's laughable to say they are.

AllDirections · 14/01/2013 11:31

I'm with Waynetta and co.

The only way to guarantee that these sick bastards don't do the same thing to another woman is to kill them.

Otherwise they'll languish in prison for a few years and all this time they'll be blaming 'that woman who wasn't worth anything anyway'. What do you think they'll do when they're released. Treat women with respect, I don't think so Hmm

These men can not be rehabilitated. They are animals.

Trills · 14/01/2013 11:34

Being against the death penalty in no way says that it is OK to commit crimes.

OwlLady · 14/01/2013 11:37

I don't really want to comment on whether I agree or not with capital punishment, but I am annoyed it's just being referred to as rape. Not that there anything small about rape, especially a gang rape. But she was murdered too. They caused injury to her so horrific she died a painful and slow horrific death :( and there was also the attempted murder of her partner.

Halfling · 14/01/2013 11:39

I am generally against death penalty in all cases.

But then what is the appropriate punsihment for such inhuman and horrific crimes?

I just want to lock up the perpetrators in a room without food and water and then leave them to die. However, having these thoughts makes me feel vile and inhuman.

WantsToBeFree · 14/01/2013 11:41

Trills,

You missed the point entirely. It wasn't about you being against the death penalty (many people are). It's you and certain others advocating the rights of heinous criminals to humane conditions and "rehabilitation". You're of the opinion that men who mutilate and brutalise a woman should be treated well. Thats incredible. Just incredible.

Trills · 14/01/2013 11:45

I think all humans deserve humane treatment, yes. No matter what they have done there is a minimum level of treatment that everyone deserves.

If we advocate treating people inhumanely then what does that say about us?

noblegiraffe · 14/01/2013 11:45

Why would people advocate better treatment for these men than that which they dished out? I imagine it's because they are better people than the criminals.
If you sink to their level, state sanctioned or otherwise, then how can you take any sort of high ground?

Trills · 14/01/2013 11:46

That is in no way the same thing as condoning the crime they have committed.

It is also nothing to do with feminism. My belief in human rights applies equally to men and women.