Two questions for you about housework-replies much appreciated

[arequipa]

How many of you can say your DP/DH does

a) their fair share of housework - this may not be half but what they may reasonably be expected to do if working longer hours outside the home than you
b) half the housework
I mean really half, including tidying up after other people, noticing and dealing with dusty corners and unclean fridges, planning and shopping for meals not just cooking them....

And (I've sneaked a third question in here) how much do you think women being in this role enhances their self-esteem and confidence in the big world out there??

a) yes
b) yes, he does half of it, as we both work full time. He doesn't need any prompting and is much more organised than I am when it comes to things like planning meals, making sure we don't run out of cleaning products, making sure the fridge and oven get cleaned out regularly. He's a more organised person in general life anyway.

But it wasn't always like this! He grew up in a house where his mum did everything for him - don't know how relevant that is though. When we moved into a small flat aged around 24, I would do most of the proper housework (he would always tidy up after himself and wash up and do half the cooking though) and in my head it just made sense for me to do the cleaning as I was quicker, more thorough and felt like a nag asking him to clean (!!)

But when we moved into a house, aged 27, the idea of me doing all the housework stressed me out, as there was a lot more of it to do. So I tried to get him to take on more of it and he did, except that I kept having to remind him and I still did the 'hidden' stuff like dusting, wiping tiles etc. Eventually this pissed me off so much that we had a big row, culminating in him asking me to write a detailed list of everything that needs doing in every room, so he could follow it. I did. He used the list about twice, and 3 years later now just knows what needs doing and does it, same as me. He's now overtaken me in domestic standards, which is totally fine by me! His eyes just needed opening to what needed doing, and to how it made me feel being the one who had to do it.

Re. Housework and self esteem, I didn't realise it at the time but being the one who was expected, and who expected herself to be the one, to clean the toilets was not good for my self esteem at all.

1 no
2 no

I'm quite happy and have Good self esteem, so I don't really care. My DH is a bit like eleanors and when I say 'well clean it then' he looks utterly surprised as it had not occurred to him at all!

Usually he cooks, I clean. IMO I have the best deal as I really fucking hate cooking!

Up to a year ago,
a, no
b, no
I felt resentful, undervalued, unimportant and unloved. It trashed my self esteem. Managing to get it all done and seeing the house clean and tidy did feel good, but it's such a temporary thing, and DH and DD can cause chaos in record times, which only added to the resentment. I also hated the fact that I was either spending my time with DD doing housework and missing out on fun with her, or doing it in the evenings and missing out on any down time. DH came home, played with DD, put her to bed, while I cooked, then had the evening off.

DH has always made an effort after an arguement, then slowly let everything slide till I was doing everyting again.

Now
a, almost!
b, no but I have a day and a half more at home with DD
I've increased my hours at work, DH has changed jobs and has a longer commute. After some fantastic advice from a friend (waves at skiing) we had our last discussion on the matter. There is a definite improvement. DH does things that he's spotted without being asked. If there's things to be done in the evening, we will do them together. I still do a lot more than him, and most of the planning falls to me, but it feels like we're a team again. I feel respected, loved and valued. My confidence and self esteem are alive and kicking. To be honest I was suprised at how much it affected me.

a. yes
b. yes

My dh works full time and I work at home intermittently (currently very little work available) but I care for our SN son, which is frankly exhausting, as I do a lot of physiotherapy exercises with him, and he takes a lot of my time.

I don't really notice the mess until dh points it out, except in the kitchen. His mum did all the houseowrk and her house is always spotless, but he doesn't expect me to follow in her footsteps. He does all the hoovering (I have to take ds2 out of the way - the hoover has him quaking in fear!). I do more of the cooking, although by no means all of it. He always cleans the bathroom - quite obsessively, actually, and far more frequently than I would!

Housework does nothing for my self esteem, or his for that matter. It's just something that has to be done.

Yes,
No (I'm SAHM)

We both ignore dirty fridges and dusty corners, neither of us are very anal about house work.

My only complaint is that he and the DDs are all just a bit keen on leaving petty personal tidying for me to do. I do wish they would all sort coats, shoes, magazines and plates!

a) yes.
b) yes he does 50%, I am very insistent on that. He does less cleaning, but half the cooking, half the childcare, half the food shopping and laundry, and more of things like gardening/diy.

c) No. not for me, I think my self-esteem is OK, but on the domestic front I'm only prepared to live with a man who does half the housework and if he didn't I'd leave him. It's not something I'm prepared to compromise on, feminism is too deeply ingrained in me.

A) Yes. He was unemployed until 20 minutes ago (!) and as I took on extra work he did close to 100% of the housework and cooking. However, I do most meal planning and online shopping etc as I am good at it (have a better grip on the budget) and he really hates doing it. We can't all be great at everything.
B) Yes. Now he has gone back to work I will step up and we do about 50% of it each. I do the general tidying/laundry and keeeping on top of things during the week and he does a deep clean every weekend.
C) I don't think that doing housework has a negative impact on my self esteem if I do lots of it. I feel quite proud of being able to do it and think one bit problem with first and second wave feminism (and I call myself a committed feminist) was the notion that deskilling women (with regard to housework/cooking) was somehow empowering. I am proud that I can run a home and my DP is proud he can to.

That said, he had a job where he worked insane hours while I was also working full time in a v demanding job and comuting 3h per day. I pretty much did 80% of the hosuework and all the cooking and was very tiered and fed up and angry. It didn't affect my self esteem though.

Yes at weekeends he's great, during the week I'm lucky if he washes up, but he makes time for the kids which is what counts to me.
No house work does nowt for my self esteem!

My husband does his fair share, probably more, but not quite half. Mainly because he works shifts that can run on so unless I was happy to hear the hoover at 3am when he came home from work half wouldn't work for us.

I'm at home but I'm at home to look after the kids, not clean the house, so I don't consider all the cleaning and housework to be my reponsibility anyway.

I don't equate much in my home life to my self esteem anyway. I have worked really hard on my self esteem over the past 10 years or so and it has precious little do to with anyone else including my children.

A) yes
B) yes, he does 90% I would estimate. Shopping, laundry, cleaning up if he sees it needs doing, childcare (including getting up in the night). I cook because I enjoy it.
C) my self esteem is fine thanks. As is his.

It'll be interesting to see if you get a different cohort of replies posting the question here to the same thread in Relationships.

(I woh approx 50h/week, plus overnight shifts. He works school hours from home).

A) yes

B) no

I work less hours and Dh does all the DIY and gardening, as we've just moved there is a lot. I work 24 hours every other weekend at which point the house turns from being really tidy to a complete shithole. He isn't a bad Dh just has different standards I guess, I've learnt to pick my battles over the years.

3. my self esteem is fine

a) yes
b) probably

DH works full time, I work part time on a freelance basis so sometimes have days with no DD but no work. He is much tidier than me, I surface clean, he deep cleans. I do the shopping and cooking, and we both share everything else, but as I say, he does it more thoroughly. He'll fix things as soon as they need fixing.

He needs no prompting - why would he? He's an adult, not a manchild. Why would anyone want to set up home, and even worse (if you know this about him already) have a family with a manchild? I don't understand that at all.

why would anyone want to set up home ... with a manchild?

Some of them look after themselves perfectly well when living alone and then revert to childhood expectations upon marriage (mainly laundry in our house, although dishes were suddenly washed only irregularly from every day in his previous flat) or child-arrival (general family organisation). Not that that isn't a constant source of conflict in our house or anything...

My DH is brilliant at housework and probably does 80% of it. He's a SAHD and I work FT. He says he enjoys cleaning and it all seems to come to him more naturally than it does to me. I do the food shop and cooking at weekends but other than that he does it all and I love him for it!
He's going back to work soon now our youngest is 1 so I will have to do more then.He never complains though he's just much tidier than me by nature but admits I'm by far the better cook.I also deal with all the admin, bills and children's appointments (but he takes them). We play to our strengths and make a good team though sometimes I feel guilty because he does more housework than me.

LeggyBlonde - so you're saying that on marriage some men start treating their wives like their mother? Doesn't that suggest that they are spectacularly disrespectful? How could anyone let that situation continue? How could anyone proceed to have a family with a man who thought like that? Allow their children to grow up seeing this, and thinking it's the norm? Or is it women infantilising the men? Either way, I still don't get it. Jesus, when I started working part-time I occasionally ironed DH's work shirts, to contribute more as I was paying less of the bills - he was immensely embarrassed that his wife ironed his shirts! Hated it.

Less than half, but probably more than his "share" to be honest (He works FT I am at home atm).

I also don't understand why so many women marry dicks.

DH works about 55 hours a week in a paid job. I work about 12 in a paid job plus looking after the children on my own for about 18 hours a week while he's at work.

We pay someone to clean the house once a week. He definitely does more than half of the remaining housework and he definitely does more than half of the childcare when we're both there. Works for us though.

I don't really understand the last question. I think my self-esteem is quite healthy. It has never been proportional or inversely proportional to how much housework I do.

My mother didn't have a home-maker role and both of my grandmothers had careers, so perhaps it's a learned thing.

DD has chores, but they are the same chores (in rotation) as her twin brother.

1. yes, at least.
2. no, he does significantly more - he works from home and I work outside and am the main breadwinner.

I do laundry and sometimes cook. He does pretty much everything else. No, I don't have to remind and organize everything myself before he does it - he takes care of all our taxes and bills, organizes all repairs, remembers the vacination dates and makes vet appointments for our 5 pets, takes both cars for servicing, remembers his family's birthdays - I have no idea about any of this. I think at the moment he is researching child care options for DC1 (who will be here soon) and he will also be a SAHD for a while.

Being in this role enhances my self-esteem and confidence in the big world out there quite fine.

a) yes
b) yes, but not the noticing things are dirty part.

Thing is, we're both slatterns and the house gets (and stays) pretty messy/grubby quite a bit of the time. The difference (I think, after musing on this quite a bit) is that from earliest childhood I watched my mother judge and be judged on keeping a clean house, down to the most hidden corners.

I only notice the finger marks and dusty skirting boards really when someone from outside the home (and in particular my mother) is due to visit and then I go into an angsty fit of cleaning because I'm sure that normal people notice these things and Judge Me. And they won't judge dh because he is a Man. Partly this is probably in my head (but partly not).

Dh does not notice these bits of cleaning needing to be done and I wonder if it's because he didn't have the same gendered upbringing?

An example of this would be my father who is much tider than my mum but also wouldn't spend a couple of hours a month with a bowl of soapy water and a cloth wiping down all the paintwork - he does about 75% of all other basic cleaning though.

Interestingly enough, the people I know with the grubbiest homes (see me subtly judge there?) are the middle class ones who grew up with cleaners but don't now have them and don't notice (or maybe they don't care) the sticky fingermarks and dust. I wonder if they escaped seeing their mothers so angsty?

DH probably does more of the actual physical housework than me. Plus we have a cleaner.

But I do all the thinking/organising/arranging. I have frequently asked him to help more since my brain is already full of work and I don't have the mindspace to deal with everything at home too. But he just doesn't think about what's needed for school etc etc - he seems to think some fairy magically arranges everything. It doesn't help that his answer to school/after-school activities etc needing arranging is just to cancel them/not bother because he doesn't see the point anyway.

DP probably notices more, and does more than I do, especially of the day to day stuff like tidying, wiping the kitchen sides, cleaning the floors etc.

I'm much more likely to think of and do the less-often-needed jobs like clearing out cupboards, rearranging DS' toy storage or cleaning all the light switches and paintwork etc. I have to make a specific effort to remember and notice the day to day stuff.

I think that not having the ability/thought to do this stuff makes me feel quite down and low in self esteem, actually, I sometimes think about it and get all into a spiral thinking "Everyone else can do this stuff, why can't I?"

a) more than
b) more than

DH is a SAHD, but he does far more than I did when I was a SAHM.