'Let Toys Be Toys' Organising Thread - Part 2

[OneHandWavingFree]

"Let Toys Be Toys - For Girls, and Boys" is a campaign started by a group of Mumsnetters, to convince retailers to categorise their toys by theme or function, rather than gender.

We're inviting everyone to 'like' us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter (@LetToysBeToys) and join us right here for discussion and collaborative decision-making about the next steps of our campaign.

Himalaya has been hard at work compiling the information gathered by our fantastic LTBT Mystery Shoppers, and we will be agreeing right here how the surveys will be ranked, which retailers we will be targetting with our message, and how we will go about it.

If you think that girls and boys should feel free to play with whatever toys that interest them most, and that they shouldn't walk into a toy store and feel pressurised to conform into archaic gender roles and stifling stereotypes, please join in the discussion!

Q: "Some of these toys are appearing in the girls' section in some stores and the boys' section in others. So it shows there's no bias,"

A: "It shows the whole gender-labelling business is a nonsense."

yy, and in addition, the need to look in both the 'Boy' and 'Girl' section is a nuisance, so the argument its more convenient for shoppers is bogus.

Q: "So what are you actually after? Do you want everything to appear in equal blue and pink versions? Or are you trying to stop anything being made in pink?"

A: "We want to stop this idea that toys must be gendered, which any colour-coding promotes.
"And we're particularly concerned where there is a special pink version that is smaller and less powerful, or about domesticity and beauty, where the 'normal' version is about cleverness or strength or more physical, investigative play."

Q: "So what are you actually after? Do you want everything to appear in equal blue and pink versions? Or are you trying to stop anything being made in pink?"

My A:
We don't much care what colour something comes in. We do care if some categories of toy are labelled explicitly or implicitly as being 'boys' or 'girls'.

You might need a Q/A (or Challenge-Response) on the difference between website and store layouts. Or even the difference between website category layout and search results, along the lines of the discussion Nickel and I had on the previous thread. I'll give it a go...

Q: From the searches online for girls toys we (shops/toy companies) know from web cookies that they then choose pink, glittery, fantasy and domestic things (or, for boys toys, and go on to choose diggers and guns). Are you trying to get retailers to engage in social engineering to force more 'worthy' toys in front of little girls, and force boys to be all touchy feely?

A: Adults search online and make those choices. It's up to them if they want to gender-limit their children and discourage or play down their abilities and potential for the future or something less strident and judgy here! . However, manufacturers and retailers control what they put in their adverts on the TV and other media that children see. Kids can be deeply prone to peer pressure, wanting to fit in, wanting to look/act like their role models - that's why there are rules about what commercials can be shown on children's TV, e.g. regarding junk food. Those messages are so powerful that they can stay with a child for their whole life, consciously or unconsciously. May want some examples here of things on the media which influenced our generation. For me, the prime minister being female in my childhood was a huge influence, never mind colour of politics. Didn't watch much tv so can't name an advert straight off. There really aren't big differences in boys and girls psychology pre-puberty (need a reference, perhaps help from Dr Laura?!?), so actually what we are trying to get back to is that boys have outlets for the sensitive side of their nature that anyone who works with young children knows is there, and that the adventurous side of girls' characters is able to be exercised too. Otherwise you find yourselves in an uphill struggle to get girls to participate in sport in their teenage years, and to manage behaviour in boys later.

On re-reading, there is a lot of assertion there, really needs someone who can back up my amateur child psych attempts. mind you, if it was on the radio with that tosser from 3 counties, you might as well say whatever unreferenced opinion you like, he's hardly John Humphries level of intellectual debate.

AGH if anyone is on thebookpeople website, have a look. Boys recommendations, full of dinosaurs. Girls? Full of fairies.

Sorry to have not tuned in much - rough few days - but still very much onboard :)

Folks -

I have been working on the survey data and come a bit unstuck....

The trouble is that although we have done a fair few surveys, the data is not yet conclusive enough to compile a robust 'top ten'. Meanwhile time ticks on and we are bang in the middle of the window of opportunity for pre-xmas media attention, with journalists asking us for info.

So .....what I propose is that we choose our campaign targets in a more qualitative way, based on the data that we have but also on where we think we might make most impact. We can back that up with the data and examples, but we are not yet in a position to definitively say who is the best and who is the worst.

So we come out with maybe 5 key campaign targets with clear examples of what they are doing wrong and 3 companies that we give for doing better.

I don't know if we should discuss bit of campaign strategy here in public, or maybe send a delegation off into a darkened room (facebook) to shortlist, and then come back to you all with a proposal and test it out with you?

Some of us chat via fb?

Or we could a thread in.otbt? If you know where i mean?

So we come out with maybe 5 key campaign targets with clear examples of what they are doing wrong and 3 companies that we give for doing better. Except as its toys maybe a

That sounds good to me (I don't FB so I'll comment here if that's ok).
Another thought might be 'The Good, the Bad and the Ugly'

Massive respect to all of you on this thread. Am following avidly! Re evidence to back up the campaign, would something from 'delusions of gender' be good? I haven't read it yet but it sounds like there could be lots of useful research in it.

I'm happy to chat on fb (or elsewhere). Feeling increasingly anxious that everything here is open to the public!

I'll be in for that. Although if the marketing/pr types are reading this, it's not that difficult to follow. Perhaps moving to RL email would be best. Most of us seem to be using real names on fb so we have totally outed ourselves there/here! Even creating new email accounts on gmail/yahoo etc under MN names might preserve some anonymity but keep the team communicating better.

Thanks qumquat.

Been a bit manic!

Yes, I think there are concerns about discussing everything in public. Certainly the media swat team have had to collaborate offline to get things out. Is OTBT not searchable?

Is OTBT not searchable?
I thought that was the point of it.

Think you are right. That's what I recall reading somewhere.

It's not searchable but it doesn't have an entry password either! Or take a rocket scientist to find it.

I have no idea what OTBT is...

Sorry - reported

Still following thread and backing you all the way.

It might be worth pming Rowan for the specific questions we want answering by MNHQ

I have shared the survey tonight via email again so hope you get some responses.
I have done virtually all my shopping online this year so not much use in stores but when I have been in Moshi monsters have been firmly in girls sections in pretty much every store. DS aged 6 is mad into them and totally not bothered

IIRC an OTBT thread becomes searchable if someone links to it.

It's not a private place. It's much less public than a normal thread, but anyone posting there about anything should be aware it's not actually private.