No More Page 3 petition

[StephanieDA]

Anyone else out there supporting the No More Page 3 petition set up by Lucy Holmes?
www.change.org/petitions/dominic-mohan-take-the-bare-boobs-out-of-the-sun-nomorepage3
I wrote a blog about it a while ago, as a mother - please look and share if you want to:
www.communicatingwithkids.com/our-daughters/

They care when they get they get felt up on the bus, they care when they have to defend their clothes when they get raped, they care when they are sexually harassed at work. This all feeds it. In to the culture that women are there for consumption. The sun is a newspaper, do I read it? No but the majority of the UK do, so it matters. If you are unable to understand that no amount of arguing will make you,

Frans1980, what do you say to the point about children seeing these images at the doctors/dentist/on the bus/hairdressers/beside the comics in the supermarket? Who could argue they aren't influencing our young people's views?

"They care when they get they get felt up on the bus, they care when they have to defend their clothes when they get raped, they care when they are sexually harassed at work."

And this is all page 3's fault? If page 3 were to end so would the above?

Sorry the point is why should a minority decide for a majority. Bottom line even if the petition gets to 300,000 that would be 10% the size of the female readership of the Sun. A vocal minority is still a MINORITY.

As to Object they have been called liars for their use of reports that have been proven false and they know the figures are not correct. How can anyone support an organisation that knowingly misleads people?

Your point is moot....unless there is a petition to KEEP these ridiculous pictures in that rag and the numbers overtake those of the petition to remove them, then you have NO idea how the majority thinks. And as for supporting an organization that lies...it sounds very much like YOU support the Sun, the king of liars!

it's not a moot point. it's an important and relevant point.

The petition has been around for a long time and has had a lot of publicity on MN and Twitter and FB, yet it's stalled at around 60,000 signatures.

Therefore it's not unreasonable to conclude that it's not a subject people care too greatly about.

No one's answered so I'm repeating this:

Frans1980, what do you say to the point about children seeing these images at the doctors/dentist/on the bus/hairdressers/beside the comics in the supermarket? Who could argue they aren't influencing our young people's views?

Also, re the point about the petition stalling. I agree it does seem to have stalled and that's disappointing. Once upon a time the majority of people didn't care that women couldn't vote. You have to keep pushing your point if you care for it enough. In a few generations people will be looking back on us wondering wtf we were thinking that we thought it was ok to objectify women in the same place we got our news.

Petitions don't work on the basis that every single person who want something will sign them. They work on the idea that it is representative of a larger group.

And there is no petition to keep page 3.

Not everyone who reads the paper reads it for page 3, unless you believe all the female sun reader are lesbians (and non feminist lesbians)? NO the majority put up with page 3 because they find it an easy --mindless- read on their lunch break.

Really need to leave it as often FWR trolls are at work here.

"there is no petition to keep page 3."

Oh but there is. Any time someone puts their money down and picks up a copy of the paper, they sign it.

If it's true that the Sun is the UK's best-selling newspaper, then there are that many people approving of Page 3. We can hate what it represents, but we have to acknowledge that lots of people like it, and lots more at least accept it.

Just because people don't sign a petition doesn't mean anything, and it certainly doesn't mean they have to like page 3.

The Sun is written for people with the reading ability of seven year olds...that isn't something I am making up - it is true. The readership therefore is hardly representative of the people in society who think more deeply about the impact of things like this. So are we supposed to just forget about these people, who DO mind that women are objectified and who want MORE for our daughters, just because some people find that rag suits their reading or intellectual ability along with looking at naked pictures??

It's not true that The Sun has a 7 year old reading age.

It's also very sneery to suggest its readers are stupid. Its readers are mostly working class. Do you think that working class people are thick, is that what you're saying?

You can say Sun readers are stupid and most Sun readers happen to be working class does not mean that most working class people are stupid.

I'm not sure if it is true but I always assumed Daily Mail readers were mostly middle class. I think Daily Mail readers are mostly stupid. I don't assume that the middle class are mostly stupid.

Most working class people don't read the Sun, so saying Sun readers are mostly stupid - which is the only possible conclusion one can draw having looked at the rag - is not at all the same thing as saying working class people are stupid. The working class people I know wouldn't soil their hands with it.

I was being facetious as SamuraiCindy had made such a pompous (and factually incorrect) posting.

Dismissing those that hold different views to you/favour different newspapers/watch different TV shows as stupid is such an easy and pointless argument. Bit like me saying all feminists are ugly.

I know plenty of highly intelligent people who read The Sun.

Of course there are many working-class people who don't buy The Sun but the readership IS largely working-class.

The working class people who read The Sun are undoubtedly not the sharpest tools in the box. Just like the middle class people who read it, and even the aristocratic people who read it.

Come on. you cannot pick up a copy of The Sun, peruse its pages, and come to any other conclusion.

I read it.

I think it's a good paper.

Well, 'thinking' is good. Keep doing it.

Do you read any other newspapers? If so, how do you think they compare?

I read every newspaper.

I think The Express is terrible - run on a shoe-string, badly edited and dull

I think The Star is grubby and also badly edited and written

I think The Mirror is a shadow of its former self and mostly boring with some occasional sparkle when in campaigning mode

I think The Sun is slick, professional, well-edited and punchy

I think The Daily Mail is polished, professional, well-written and well-edited

I think The Telegraph is good on news, weak on features

I think The Times is hit and miss but i think the T2 section can be excellent

I think the Independent is a waste of space

I think The Guardian is mostly good, occasionally too worthy

Illuminating...

"Sausageeggbacon Sat 08-Dec-12 09:00:11
Sorry the point is why should a minority decide for a majority. Bottom line even if the petition gets to 300,000 that would be 10% the size of the female readership of the Sun. A vocal minority is still a MINORITY."

Good point. If the majority of people were against Page 3 then no ban would be necessary- sales of The Sun would dwindle and they would go out of business and disappear by themselves.

"Nancy66 Sat 08-Dec-12 11:26:04
The petition has been around for a long time and has had a lot of publicity on MN and Twitter and FB, yet it's stalled at around 60,000 signatures. "

A number of news articles have also linked to the petition so most likely millions upon millions know the petition is there. But the best they can do after all this time and publicity is 60k signatures which when you look at the bigger picture it's like a small splash in a big swimming pool.

Nick Clegg has even declined to back the campaign to ban page 3.

Face it your campaign will fizzle out.

www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/oct/12/clegg-banning-sun-page-3-illiberal

"I read every newspaper. "
I assume you work in the media. The alternative is too horrific to contemplate.

www.mediauk.com/newspapers/13707/the-sun/readership-figures

Estimated number who read The Sun in 2012.

"Reach:
It was read by 7,244,000 adults.

Percentage reach:
It was read by 14.4% of the adult population."

~60,000 want to ban it but there are ~7.2 million who read it and probably tens of millions who don't care either way.

When the people who want to ban it reach a majority come back and try again.

The campaign may indeed fizzle out, at this stage. But that doesn't make the campaign wrong IMO. It was only after WWI that women got the vote - getting equal suffrage with men in 1928. Almost 70 years after the first groups were formed in the 19th Century.

The same can be said of the civil rights movement, disability rights etc. These things take time. Attitudes can take generations to change.

I don't care what the readership is of The Sun - or the average IQ / class. I just care about what I believe is right and I believe a newspaper is no place for demeaning sexual images. Just like someone, somewhere turned round and questioned whether people being blacked up for light entertainment was appropriate.

Page 3 belongs in to a different era - and we need to move away from it. It's all part of denigration of women in our modern society and I'm happy to be a minority (at this stage) voice against it. I just can't see it any other way and pointing out I'm in a minority doesn't stop me thinking or believing the things I do.