Apparently I can't be a feminist because I changed my name when I married.

[dustandfluff]

I heard someone (a feminist writer dunno who) on Radio 4 a few months ago saying women who change their names when they get married are not feminists.

. I have long been interested in feminism and women's rights. I appreciate the feminist arguments against changing your name. I had my reasons but I don't think that's relevant here. To me this sounds as though to "be" a feminist you have to meet a particular standard.

I think this is the kind of thing that puts a lot of women off the movement.

Opinion s anyone?

Yes, I am part of the problem. I don't deny it.

"Others on this thread are saying you can't be a feminist at all if you changed your name."

I don't think anyone has said this - just that changing your name is not a feminist choice. That doesn't mean that someone who makes a non-feminist choice on one thing, or indeed on a few things, isn't overall a feminist.

Somerset kudos to you for admitting that - I still struggle when I realise some of the decisions I've made have contributed to inequality. And still read some of the threads on this board and think 'duh, how could I not have thought of that as being an issue'

IMO people who say "you can't be a feminist if you do this or this or this" will just put people off calling themselves a feminist.

If feminism comes with a lot of rules and things you must and must not do that must be obeyed like a religion then it's not surprising if people don't bother with it.

I'm not angry. I understand the argument for keeping your own name. I'm ok with the choice I made, though, even while accepting it may be unfeminist. I wasn't thinking about other women when I made it, I was thinking about me.

I'm obviously not concentrating because I haven't seen anyone on this thread say to everyone else that they cannot be a feminist because they've changed their name.

Also that thing about putting people off feminism - if you're committed to women's rights, you won't be put off feminism by something one feminist somewhere tells you.

Either you believe in women's humanity or you don't.

Yes I agree Blistory, I think people pick their battles. I don't condemn anyone for not picking the same battles as I pick. And I also certainly wouldn't condemn anyone who picks battles I wouldn't: I think it's crucial that some battles are fought, even if I'm too weak/ lazy/ uninformed to fight them myself.

changing your name gives clear indication you value his name more than yours
if it were solely to all be same name family you could all be double barelled
if you change to his name youre clearly prioritising his name above yours

Yep, sm, I didn't like my own name

so I prioritised another one and it just happened to be his

Yep, scottishmummy. I absolutely did.

Fastidia, I think that's very true. It's the reason I like these boards, actually.

Either you believe in women's humanity or you don't.

This

I have been a feminist- -and alive!- for longer than most on here, and I don't thinking have ever heard anyone say to anyone "you can't be a feminist if you do X"

What I have heard is women, when challenged on their choices, getting all huffy about it and flouncing off saying "well, I won't call myself a feminist, than you'll be sorry!"

ive never strongly needed being recognised as being identifiably dp partner
im his partner i dont need to be identifed by same name as him.why would i
our kids are double barrelled

woozley - you can do what ever you want, no one cares.

But you can't ALSO expect people to agree with your choice, or say it is a valid FEMINIST choice.

SM, a lot of women do appear to need their marital status as a badge to ward off...I dunno, single women, predatory men, dancing chimpanzees, whatever..

I've never felt the need to publicly proclaim my status to anyone but comments from recently married friends have been :-

'I feel safer now that I'm married' WTF ?
'Ms XXX but I'm actually married, I've just kept my maiden name for professional purposes' - fine but the context was in making a complaint to a customer services manager who needed a surname. She had no fecking interest in your marital status and didn't give a toss about your surname or the fact you used Ms.

once had to call someone,name written as Mary Doe. so i asked for ms doe
she had total berky,im married as if shed been insulted

See, this is where it gets tricky for me. Feminism can't be a free for all. I remember a woman arguing that she was anti-choice and a feminist because she cared about the rights of the 'girl babies'. Sorry, she wasn't a feminist in my book. Was I wrong to say that? Did she them complain about women like me who want to keep people who disagree with out of the feminist club?

We all have our own ideas about what it is to be a feminist. For me, keeping my name was vital. For others I see it isn't. I must admit that I find that strange, but I also know radical feminists who think I've betrayed the sisterhood for marrying in the first place. I take their point, but I would never run away bleating about the big girls throwing me out of their club. There are varieties of belief and commitment within every great political movement. Running away and saying 'not fair' every time someone questions one's assumptions is pretty feeble and weakens the collective and the movement.

I kept my name because for me changing to my husband's name implied I was being transferred from my father's property to my husband's, which is total bollocks, plus my DS had my surname as his useless father left when I was pregnant. It was a conscious statement of my individuality and when challenged about it I used the above explanation.

Several times my DH has been referred to as Mrs Original and he thinks it is hilarious, but when I ask him to think about why it is so funny, he gets a bit huffy. I've told him clearly, I love him but I don't like what changing my name would have implied

So Brasssection - what you're saying is that you deem people unworthy of being in the club, but you yourself refuse to be thrown out of the club by others.

I'm with you with regards to the latter. I changed my surname, but I refuse to be thrown out of the club. Feminists have me whether they want me or not.

But there is a contradiction there, surely. You can't tell someone they're not feminist, as frustrating as their stance might be to you. Because you wouldn't tolerate it from someone else with regards to issue X where you allegedly 'fail'.

All you can do is continue to argue the toss, debate, question, etc. I know I failed as a feminist when it comes to taking DH's name. I really do. But I'm also part of the solution when it comes to (many) other matters.

No-one's perfect. We all just do our best.

I kept my own surname but each to their own. Women who wear marriage as a badge of pride are weird though - the sort Blistory is talking about. Getting married is nice for the couple involved but it's not like climbing Everest or graduating with a first or anything.

I think there are some things where it would be preposterous to demand to be in the club though.

What other political movement has to put up with people who clearly have no commitment to the basic tenets of the movement calling themselves part of the movement?

Actually, scrap that, communism does. Pol Pot, capitalist China, Stalin etc.

OK here's another one. Feminism's basic principle is that women are human beings just like men, not chattels and not inferior and not an afterthought.

If you don't believe in women's humanity, then you're not a feminist.

I agree with Brassection, if you believe in forcing women to carry pregnancies they don't want and undertake the health risks and life risk of labour when they don't want to, you don't really believe women are as human as men, because there isn't a situation anywhere where you would insist men have to put their welfare on the line for the sake of someone else.

Trotskyists accuse Stalinists of betraying the revolution. Stalinists say Maoists are idiots and not real communists.

AFAIK, none of them say: "well that's it then, I'm not going to be a communist anymore, it's communists like you who put other people off being communist and guess what, my commitment to the movement is so weak and tenuous, that I too have been put off - I'm off to join the Tory party".

Only feminists are accused of putting people off an entire political and human rights movement.

Interesting ain't it?

No that's not what I meant, but I can see why it looks that way. Im afraid I've had a few .

I meant that it's incredibly complicated but that we all have our limits. If someone asks, as the OP did, I'll say what I think, just as I expect others would if I asked about feminism and marriage or make up or whatever. On the other hand, I would (and have) protested outside a lap dancing club, but I wouldn't target the women who worked there. I guess we have our own hierarchies and we tend to gravitate to people who share our views. That doesn't mean we dont feel an affinity with larger movements, but that we have a position within the broader collective. A bit like a political party I guess.

Oh yes, fas it's funny that, isn't it?

Fastidia - I really, generally do agree with you - it's very unusual for me to be on the 'other' side of any feminist debate. And in actual fact, I'm not really - since I admit that changing your name is not the right thing to do, even though I did it. I admit I'm in the wrong on this.

But I would argue that, for example, socialists and communists are often accused of putting people off their movement...! I mean you only have to look at the Republicans in the US as an example of this. They are thoroughly put off socialism by Obama (who's about as much of a socialist as David Cameron is, really). Anyone who doesn't agree with a particular ideology will be put off it by its proponents. I don't think feminism in unique in this regard.

But that's the crux of it. They don't agree with it, and never did in the first place. They don't need any putting off, it's just an excuse.

Oh I think we're on the same side re that one...

"Put off", forsooth.