Would anyone like to join in an effort to convince retailers to stop categorizing toys by gender?

[OneHandWavingFree]

Following on from this thread and similar ones, a few of us are interested in discussing ways to send a message to retailers that it is not acceptable to designate 'boys' and 'girls' toy aisles which reinforce the message that science and adventure are "boys stuff", while girls should be primarily occupied with looking 'sexy' or practicing for domestic drudgery.

The first steps might be to draft a letter and identify a few retailers to target for an email campaign. Other ideas of how to get the message across are very welcome too, though.

Would anyone like to join in?

So should we promote survey or Facebook page on twitter? Or would you prefer to wait?

(only have about three followers but even so)

euphemism I hope to have the main thread launched (I think PuddleJumper has convinced me that Chat is the place - anyone else want to weigh in?) this evening, with links to the survey and the Facebook page.

There's only the name issue to be resolved, which will be important for Twitter of course. I've counted back the posts that weighed in on the name question, and after eliminating duplicates and posts that cancelled themselves out with "well, on one hand I like Equal Play, but then again, Let Toys Be Toys is good too..." type responses , the tally is 2 for Let Toys Be Toys and 6 for Equal Play.

So I'm thinking we should go with LadyKinbote's suggestion of combining the two options with Equal Play as the name and Let Toys Be Toys as the tagline. That way the survey threads will still make sense in relation to the campaign, and anyone who's liked the page or followed this thread will know we're still talking about the same campaign.

If this is a terrible idea, please post to say so within the next hour! :)

Sounds good to me, it's the best of both worlds that way. Did you want me to set up a Twitter account for it? I believe I can link it to the FB page too

I think it makes sense :)

Honestly, Equal Play is best - it plays on the 'equal pay' concept which is now engrained and perfectly sums up what the campaign is actually about.

Let Toys Be Toys is good (and should be the tagline), but it could be about other things (toys made of natural products, say, or e.g. toys which are only for playing with, and don't double up as a learning tool).

Yep, I also think "Equal Play" with "Let toys be toys" as the tag line is the best choice. It is short, sharp and to the point

i sometimes fucking hate my sister

Ah, you ok nickel? Was wondering who that was

Oh God, Somerset, if I wasn't convince before... would not love to be mistaken for "let's tell the toy makers to stop trying to teach our kids! Play should not be educational!"

There is already an Equal Play on Facebook however! It's an Australian study into gay teenagers' participation in sport.

Totally contradicting my last post! ... I will have one last go at arguing against Equal Play.

I think the problem with Equal Play is that it sounds lefty / feminist and so doesn't have such a wide appeal. The people in this part of the site are almost certainly feminist and quite probably lefty by definition!

I think we need to ask others (those around us / any one to hand) what they think of the names.

FWIW DP preferred "Let Toys be Toys" because he said he think "Equal Play has connotations". (I didn't prompt him, honest!)

If we want this to have wide appeal, it should have a name with wide appeal shouldn't it?

Also FWIW I do like Equal Play as a name, and happy to go with whatever is decided.
But I do think this is worth considering.

could you make two facebook pages?
one called Equal Play ans one called Let Toys be Toys?

(fighting for Toys because that was my idea.... )

Murder - i ranted exactly how i felt.
and it's true - my little sister is very very very very "boys should do/have this and girls should do/have this"
she even takes the piss out of me not wanting DD to have "girlish" clothes!

Many non-Guardian readers! people in wider society won't be familiar enough with the Equal Pay policy to get the reference.

"Let Boys be Boys" is a much more well known phrase than "Equal Pay", many times over I'd hazard a guess.

Also I think "Equal Play" might actually put some people off.
Again I'm not totally anti-"Equal Play" but I think this is worth considering.

(On the other hand, "Equal Play" is catchier!)

I love equal play - but I see what you are saying in that the people who shut their ears against equal pay will shut their ears against this (but maybe they would anyway?)
I don't think let toys be toys makes sense (yet) but once it's familiar it would do; it might be that it needs to be- let toys be toys for girls or/and boys- which is too long.
Argh

I like both

I think Let Toys be Toys is less threatening/militant sounding but also less self explanatory.

So it has to have a strap line that spells it out really clearly "the campaign for integration in the toy shop" ? "The campaign to end gender segregation in the toys shop"?

Hmm, yes, I get the arguments against Equal Play - it might sort of being preaching to the converted, mightn't it?! Probably why it appeals to me so much.

Yes, on second thoughts - perhaps it's not quite as ideal as I envisaged.

My main concern with "Let Toys Be Toys" is that it begs the questions "... Let them be toys instead of what? Who's keeping toys from being toys?". I mean, a Bratz doll is still a toy, a digger is still a toy, etc.

What we mean of course, is "Let toys be used as objects for fun and exploration, instead of tools of gender oppression", but I don't think many people are going to get all that meaning from "let toys be toys".

I also see the issues with "Equal Play". But I think the other group (the study on young gay athletes) is small enough, far enough away, and different enough in its focus that if we include the strapline about toys, the two things won't be confused and we won't do them any damage. I also tend to agree with euphemism that the people who would be turned off by "Equality" (I know they exist but seriously, ) would not see any problem with the status quo anyway. I don't think it would actually lose us anyone to use the word "Equal".

I think what we're going for is to galvanise the support who people who are sick of this gendered stuff in toy aisles already, and hopefully to pick up some more people along the way who haven't thought much about it before but can see our point once we make it. I don't think we could possible choose a name that would change the minds of people who would actively argue against removing the "Girls" sign from over the doll shelf.

Would it be much to long to say Equal Play : Let Toys Be Toys, For Girls and Boys ? Because if we drop 'for girls and boys', I think that toys being toys thing is still not making terribly clear what it is we're on about.

There is a perfect name out there.... I'm not going to rush to change the name tonight if people are still kicking it around; I think that we'll hit on something we can all get behind. But you can only change the name on a page with fewer than 200 likes, so if we're looking to spread the word even as we discuss names, we do need to decide on one soon.

So the combination idea is clearest?
Equal play - Let toys be toys for girls and boys

• and then see which name seems to pick up momentum?!

X post!

I'm itching to spread the word, accidentally invited a few people already .

I think Let Toys be Toys says they are just toys, not gender specific toys, not boys toys, not girls toys, just toys. I think it works, (and I like the way it suggests 'let boys be boys' which is often said as a way of agreeing with shite behaviour), but if a few people think it's unclear then I don't mind going with Equal Play.

My OH baulked at all the other names for sounding too lefty feminist - not that there's anything wrong with lefty feminist, just that we want to cast the net far and wide. I see the point about the shut ears already being shut though, quite possibly.

We could probably do a poll on FB about the name?

How about Let Toys be Toys then tagline in smaller font Equal play for girls and boys.

That's a thought, Goths - but at the moment I think there's a lot of overlap between this thread and the Facebook membership (and if I'm wrong, what are you lot waiting for?! Come 'like' the page! ).

So we'd be unlikely to reach a clear decision unless the discussion on a name went on for awhile, in which case I'd be afraid it would make the campaign looks terribly unorganised...?

I've been thinking about whether the concept we're going for has better resonance with the word "Freedom" than with "Equal"?

We do want equality, of course! But we're not just asking for 'girls toys' aisles and 'boys toys' aisles to be equally stocked with similar type toys, exactly. We're asking that there are no designated boys or girls aisles, so that every child is free (and feels free, which is more to the point again) to choose the toys they like from whatever aisle they happen to be in.

So something like "Free to Play"... but catchy, and clear re: our meaning.

"Free to Play"... but catchy, and clear re: our meaning.
I don't think it is clear TBH...that could be a campaign to end homework.