A chatty, questions and random comments thread

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

There used to be a lovely 'Chat' thread where we could all be silly or just comment/witter on about stuff, and I've not seen it since this place got renamed to 'Chat'. Would it be a good time to have another random chatty thread going? I think there are some newbies having a look around after the thread about calling yourself a feminist, so maybe it would be a nice thing?

So people can ask random questions or make comments without feeling they have to jump right in to an ongoing thread or write an OP, if they don't want to.

How stupid that they are not allowed to wear trousers. I think school uniforms should be completely unisex, there's no reason why they can't be. My dd does occasionally wear a skirt or dress but mostly she's in trousers or shorts. So much more practical.

Hello everyone.

MmeLindor that must be vexing. I would be inclined to try and make them change it. My dd keeps telling me I've got to be either Miss or Mrs. Not sure where she's got this from (is only 5). Keep on telling her I'm Ms.

Hello!

I get called Miss by students all the time, I think it's a habit they learn at school and then can't drop - I wonder if your DD is getting her first exposure to that!

I'm not even married. But I wouldn't be a Mrs even if I were. I do think it's probably do do with the fact that all but one member of staff at her school is Mrs or Miss (the remaining one is a Mr).

Since she started school she has picked up a lot of interesting ideas about what mums ought to do and what dads ought to do, too.

While I'm thinking of school...

Our school recently acquired its first male teacher in decades. A friend was wondering out loud why so few men are in primary education and I said "it's because they think they are too important for it". Another friend quite crossly said "oh, don't be so ridiculous". I was kind of being tongue in cheek when I said it, but actually, when I was told I was being ridiculous I immediately defended this viewpoint because I do think there's an element of that in it, though I acknowledge there are other factors that make primary education an attractive environment for women... I'd be interested to know what anyone else thinks...

Interesting. Someone on here (I think) was saying that her DD, despite having a female GP and knowing a family friend was a doctor, went to school and promptly picked up the idea that only men can be doctors.

I suppose there's an element of it being very natural to want to categorize people, isn't there? It's a bit like when they come out with hyper-regular grammar ('I goed').

I do think there might be an element of that with teaching. I think as well, most people I know who became teachers (there's a lot) did it because they remembered a wonderful teacher and wanted to be like them. And obviously your role model could be male or female, but perhaps if all your primary school teachers were female, you'd be less likely to put yourself in their shoes?

I had a fab male primary school teacher, he was lovely. He's dead now, but he is one of those people I think of quite a lot because I still have his voice in my head when I read certain things or do certain things the way he taught me.

It still surprises me that childcare is seen as a profession mainly for females, and that's not easy either. I don't believe that men automatically do harder jobs at all.

I don't think we have one male teacher at the DC's primary school. Except music teachers, sport teachers etc.

Both mine are quite good at noticing things like this. DD gets annoyed because the science kits that look interesting have boys on the box, and the 'girl' ones are not about experiments but making bath bombs.

DD was writing a story about a 'space lady' and I said, 'Would she not be called an astronaut?'. She was working from a book to teach the art of story telling, which gave suggestions for the protagonist of the story. It was given as 'spaceman' so she changed to 'space lady'

As an aside, AIBU to worry that the characters in the story are called Kim, Kaitlen, Khloe and Kristine? ;)

We've got one male teacher.

Don't look at the M&S stuff, Mme, it'll drive you crazy. Did they just change it or is it that my DCs are now resoundingly out of the reasonably non-gendered baby toys range and into the "Boys' Stuff Skull and Crossbones" mix?

...meaning that it was always like that and I didn;t notice.

Khloe?! That's bizarre.

Good on your DD about bath bombs/science.

I should clarify that when I said "they think they are too important for it", I wasn't saying that primary school teaching is an unimportant job, or easy; more that people (in this case, men) probably think of it that way, and therefore think they are too important for it.

Am I clarifying? Or making the situation worse?

Perhaps I should simply say that I am full of admiration for primary school teachers, I can't even begin to imagine how hard a job it must be.

The science kit versus bathbombs/make up kits thing makes me go insane, so other than complaining every so often, I try not to think about it too much...

Oh, no, I didn't think you were saying that Mo!

I would like to think there aren't that many men who consciously say to themselves 'mmm, I am far too important for this!', but perhaps it's all rather more low-level messages about expectations. I certainly find it interesting that salary often gets brought up when we talk about teaching, with the idea that men can't do a badly paid job. Yet I have not noticed it putting off the men in DH's work, which is computer-tech stuff and pays minimum wage for quite a lot of the staff.

I think it is also interesting how there's a spectrum depending on the age of the age of the child. Working in a nursery is seen as very feminine and very 'easy' by some; at the other extreme most professors at university are still men.

StewieGriffinsMom Mon 17-Sep-12 14:43:24
The only reason "teaching" is considered more important than childcare is because of the hierarchal constructions of knowledge and power. It is only perceived as more important because men do it too.

You mean unlike childcare? Which, of course, men do too.

I think she's still talking about the hierarchical constructions, OMC. Childcare is seen (by the twits) as 'pure women's work'; primary teaching 'mostly women's work', and eventually you get towards adults and suddenly - it's absolutely fine for being a highly-paid prof to be mostly 'man's work'.

Primary school teaching is still not terribly well paid compared to lots of jobs that you could do off the back of three years at university and one year postgrad, though. I find that depressing.

Ta, LRDtFD !

SGM so a bit like nursing used to be then? You got a male nurse, who rapidly became charge nurse then off to admin...

[Quibble a bit with very few men, FWIW, but get the point]

I thought being a HoD at secondary was worth more? I wouldn't know, though.

Still, you get paid a lot more for other jobs you can do off a postgrad.

And from what people say, PGCEs are really, properly hard work as postgrads go, too. (I know not all teachers get into the job that way but lots do.)

Is nursing not still quite like that?