Male nannies/childminders

[Lottapianos]

Just listening to a discussion on the radio about male nannies. The general feeling is that having men work with young children is a good thing. No argument there!

However, the reason given is not because men are 50% of the population and it's good for children to spend time with both men and women so they can start to see both sexes as equal. The reason is that 'men and women play differently' - men are more 'rough and tumble' and kids love that Oh and some boys are growing up without a man in the home and they need a male role model in order to develop normally and not grow up gay. Or something

I really do get sick of all this essentialism - men do this, women do that - in the same way as I can't stand people talking about how boys and girls are inherently different. I really think that putting people into boxes based on their biological sex is stifling and unfair - what happens to people who don't 'perform' in the way they are expected?

Any thoughts on this issue?

Young person here.:(

Lurking I really hope you are not taking this to heart? It is never the fault of a child or adult woman if they are abused, sexually or physicaly. It is the fault of the abuser.

Sorry - I have asked for my posts after 'ludicrous discussion' to be removed - unfortunately it is slow. I get carried away when people treat men with suspicion just because they are male. Sorry.

I'm sorry

It's not up to the child to prevent abuse by shouting while it's already happening...!

I think Exotics unnaceptable comments are detracting from EatsBrains equally offensive comments.

On the plane issue she says "He was asked to move as some men are paedophiles. So it makes sense to place an unaccompanied child next to a woman who statistically is less risk. Not no risk, but less risk."

I guess you could say the same about Muslims - that most terrorists are Muslim (but not all Muslims are terrorists) so should we ask not to sit next to Muslims or let Muslims on planes?

Its all fear inducing paranoia that we are fostering.

Yep. And on here, eats is inducing a culture of fear and mistrust.

It is frankly horrific.

I can't get my head around why feminists who are supposed to be working towards social change are so busily stacking up and defending existing and harmful stereotypes.

And I think the stuff with exotic is taking away from the real danger of maintaining and reinforcing that status quo.

I didnt know I was that powerful madwoman!

Well, apparently someone unthread looks up to you as a prolific poster (which I find interesting in itself as a reinvention, lol)

I just felt it necessary to keep pointing out that it's not a feminist viewpoint. And really, you are just an echo of mainstream Pedro hysteria backed by a few stats in a feminist vein. Just in case anyone drifting by assumed you were speaking for a feminist majority, and all.

Let's hope you're not that important, frankly, because I'd quite like to see a society where childcare is happily and equally provided by both sexes before I die, for equal and adequate pay, or as a family choice. Thus ending the 'women's work' stuff for good.

Not sure who Pedro is, but apparently he is quite a tricksy chap.

That Pedro

Actually the position I am taking is a feminist one. Because fundamentally being a feminist is about putting children and women first rather than men. And this position does that. Allowing unaccompanied children to sit next to adult men in planes though, is putting men's needs first.

I used to be a proloific poster but left for 2-3? months and now post much more occasionally.

"because I'd quite like to see a society where childcare is happily and equally provided by both sexes before I die, for equal and adequate pay, or as a family choice. Thus ending the 'women's work' stuff for good."

I dunno, eats, I rarely go to fwr after all the boring hoo ha. No idea, was just going by whoever was it unthread and know you used to always be there if I rolled by.

Yar, it is a feminist position, but not one that looks at the wider implications.

It just goes back to battles or wars. I'm a bigger picture person, which is why I find some of the smaller detail stuff hard to swallow if you look at the ramifications.

Like many other debates on fwr, if you stop demonising a specific group and work towards greater understanding and mutual action, you'd have a lot more success.

I use 'you' in the wider sense, not directly, and not even targeted at fwr. 'we' would probably have been a better term.

I' m not particularly invested in this barney, other than to be mildly irritated that it's these sort of attitudes that are the very backbone of patriarchy. Which I find ironic when they are peddled by a 'feminist'.

So how do you think we challenge patriarchy madwoman? Or do you think we should patriarchy at all?

Delurking for one last scream....

Is Feminism really about putting women and children first rather than men?

Because I (am admittedly not as educated as I'd like to be on the subject), thought it was about the promotion of equality. And wanting all adults to be treated with same dignity and respect. Given the same opportunities, privileges and pay. Not aiming to subdue men but instead to raise women.

No its not about wanting to subdue men, but it is not about equality either. It is ultimately about wanting women and men to be treated as human beings.

The reason it is not about equality is because women and men have different needs. At a basic level women need maternity care to recover from child birth, support to breastfeed, etc. Most peopel use equality to mean that everyone should be treated the same.

Feminism is about womens liberation - womens liberation from being a second status sex and freedom from male domination.

Toa chieve this as feminists we do need to put women and children first. Otherwise we just end up focusing on mens needs all of the time.

"It is ultimately about wanting women and men to be treated as human beings."

And yet this thread seems to be about treating all women as human beings and all men as paedophiles.

No it is about putting children first

So do you think men should be involved in the childcare of young children? Say in a nursery?

Because logically asking men not to work there would be a sensible precaution, wouldn't it?

And I'm sure the man would not be offended.

That's my issue with it, empusa.

How do we challenge the patriarchy? What, on an individual or group level? Which particular aspects of the patriarchy? Impossible question for 8.30am when I haven't had my second cup of tea and boot camp starts in 30 minutes.

We all do what we can on an individual level.

I'm pretty sure that viewing each and every male as a suspected paedophile doesn't come into it, though, ergo you are derailing.

And a really important way to fight the patriarchy in this context is to encourage more men into childcare, both paid and in a sahm context.

I am fine with men working with young children, but I am also fine with mothers who do not want their young children to be looked after by men.

Why is encouraging more men into childcare an important way to fight male domination?