Shaving and all of that - new lows

[rosabud]

I know we debate this a lot and, like a lot of women, I really hate shaving and the concept behind it but do give in to fashion and shave various bits when I feel it matters............so at what point does it REALLY matter because, very depressingly, there is a thread over in the childbirth section from a woman who feels she needs to shave around her vagina before giving birth as it may look horrible for the midwife! Is that equally as depressing as me giving into fashion when I am on the beach / preparing for an intimate evening with partner - or is it a depressing new low?

It's her choice, rosa. You don't wanna shave, don't shave.
Quite simple, really.

T'is all personal choice.

And surely you don't need to waste your time worrying about someone else's pubic hair and what they chosse to do with it.
NO pun intended, but, don't sweat the small stuff, you know?

I used a bikini trimmer down below and will regularly until I have baby in 3/4 weeks. I don't like the feel of it all there tbh and prefer being neat for during and after childbirth.

Easy now, Grass... bikini trimmers today, lawn strimmers tomorrow.
It's a slippery slope, you know. (Again, no pun intended.)

I'm with you, actually, Rosabud. I think it's depressing. Particularly in those situations - where they seem to be worried about what the midwife - another woman - thinks about their pubic hair while they are giving birth. I think it's depressing that this is something that worries women.

absolutely personal choice, and i hate that women feel embarrassed about body hair but I am a total hypocrite though because I was extremely well manicured in my nether reasons since i had hair there!! I used to feel embarrassed that i would clip it short or shave it as that was not what was normally done, but it was how i felt most comfortable. i'm old, and this was before it became fashionable!

"And surely you don't need to waste your time worrying about someone else's pubic hair and what they chosse to do with it."

The sad thing is that the woman here is worrying what her midwife would think about her pubic hair, and getting rid of it for that reason.

I'd really love to not give a fuck about this crap but there is a pressure to shave for the fear of how others may react - partner, strangers on beach etc

Grass - I can understand shortening the hair on your head if you can feel it annoying you but you can FEEL your pubic hair?? I can't feel mine, it just sits there in my knickers inobtrusively.

I'm not exactly worrying about this lady's pubic hair, I'm more thinking about the idea that women could possibly be bothered by something so insignificant when about to embark on the rather important and significant task of giving birth. I was thinking about it more in the context of how pressured we as women may / may not feel by society's expectations in this department.

So are we clear on that? I am not worrying about other people's pubic hair, so to speak.

It's not for a man though, don't worry about it

rosabud yes! It really bothers me especially when I am in bed (naked). Maybe mine is particularly erm...full and healthy?

It is a depressing new low and have said so on said thread.

OK, am I the only one wondering how an extremely pregnant woman could shave there?

The woman on the thread you're taking about is just asking. It doesn't make her 'sad' or less of a woman. Actually, being a feminist means doing what you want, even if that means you do something others may consider shallow or 'sad'. It's their choice. What I do think is disappointing is other women judging her for asking the question - it's perfectly reasonable she is asking this. To her it obviously matters and that is ok.

And for people who don't care about the state of their pubes, they sure have a lot to say about other peoples.

Back in the day it was the norm though, wasn't it? Midwives used to shave women giving birth because it was thought it reduced infection. Perhaps it is a hangover from that?

The sad thing to me is that it isn't so long ago that it was considered a feminist issue that hospitals would insist on shaving off women's pubic hair when they came in to give birth even if a 'normal' delivery was expected.

I certainly remember it being discussed when I was pregnant with DD 11 years ago (disclaimer - I was in Spain so it is possible that the UK had given up the practice by then).

Not quite sure how we got from outrage at our pubes being forcibly removed to an expectation that we should do it ourselves to look neat and tidy

I agree with the OP that it is particularly sad when someone is concerned about their medically trained midwife "having" to see their pubic hair when they are about to engage in a marvel of biology. The only thing that stops me despairing, is that I think it is natural to be a bit overwhelmed by the idea of giving birth and to look to trivialities to distract you. Hair removal is, unfortunately, a detail it is easy for women to get hung up on. But I think in the case of concern for the midwife it is mainly about looking for a distraction and so applying the pressure to oneself rather than having it applied by society*.

*Disclaimer: I haven't read the other thread so may be horrified to see other MNers are actually applying social pressure to do this.

I agree with OP. It's only reading on here about shaving before smear test/childbirth that has had me a bit worried about what the health professionals might think of me not bothering .

I find it depressing that women or girls should feel they need to alter their body for it to be socially acceptable to others. It's bad enough when this involves the "public" parts of the body (e.g. make up, hair style, clothing, heels, etc.), but when it involves parts of the body very few people ever see - the parts most closely connected with sex, sexuality and sexual identity, my heart sinks.

I distinctly remember a conversation with a friend where I used to live in Wales - it would have been at least 5 or 6 years ago. At the time, her daughter and son were 12 and 14. She said she'd picked up a "tip" from her mother about waiting until the last minute to go to the hospital in labour because the midwives and doctors would be rushing around too much to bother with the dreaded "pubic shave." When I was a nurse about 20 years ago, having to have a full shave before birth or a gynae procedure was seen as an outmoded tradition, already being abandoned by the more progressive surgeons and detested by patients.

Now, women now fret about whether their pubic regions will upset/shock/repulse health care staff?

It bothers me not only that women should feel that their bodies in a "natural state" will upset, shock or repulse anyone. It bothers me especially how this has come to be and it is most definitely connected to changes in the way women have been depicted in pornography over the past 20 years.

Shaving and waxing of genitals for women in porn, was introduced to make it easier for the camera to film and the viewer to "see" what was happening more clearly. Men who viewed porn associated hairless pudenda with sexual pleasure while masturbating. Some no doubt asked partners to try it, maybe got them to view porn with them to see how "normal" it was. Some salons started offering waxing, seeing a new "market" emerging. What started out as niche became "mainstream" within a very short time, with women and girls spending alot more time and money on shaving, waxing and other forms of hair removal. It's also created another way women can feel insecure about their appearance and identity. More recently, some of the health risks of health removal have emerged, but I doubt this will make a difference.

The midwife is likely to see a lot worse than pubic hair (not that I think pubic hair is bad, btw). Are people going to go back to having pre-delivery enemas too?

fab analysis Kritiq, thanks!

When I had baby number one I had a c section after being in labour a while. It was kind of planned but for a different time. Anyway, I was asked if I had shaved by the midwife. If I hadn't they would have done to be able to see to cut etc.

Glad I had attempted to do something because I really would hate them doing it to me. That part I understand, it would be awful to have the midwifes do it.

If you go back through history pube shaving/not shaving/how shaved fashion changes continually, as does tattooing, wearing bling etc etc. In the renaissance shaving pubes was the norm till the French decided it was uncool, and fuzz came back in.

I don't think porn is the only cause today, the trend was already underway beforehand, as women wore less and less, and more and more ways of differentiating yourself came into vogue (eg rise of female tattooing - vajazzling is the obvious confluence)

IMO "do what you want" is the key here.

I am a bit of a faint hearted feminist and have become more conformist in terms of hair removal. I never used to remove my armpit or leg hair in winter but since I don't sit in a fully air conditioned office any more, I get warmer and sweat more, so remove more of my pubes too. I also spend more time in a dressing gown looking at my own hairy legs, rather than having them encased in a trouser suit for work.

It doesn't mean that I've let the team down because I choose to tidy myself up for medical app'ts in which someone will be looking at my armpit, leg or genitals. I think it means they get a clearer look at what I am describing. It is besides the point that this is now part of mainstream porn, I don't look at that. My DH removes his pubes and armpit hair and does so to prevent sweating/ BO smells in body hair.

If you don't remove your body hair and sweat heavily, isn't this more of a slob statement than a political one?

It's not people shaving or not that bothers me, it's the EUWW- how gross for a woman not to shave that I don't like, the societal pressure.