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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

What is wrong with a boy playing with a doll?

96 replies

AugustMoon · 21/08/2012 23:36

DS (9) today saw an ad for 'girls'' lego and was quite vocal in his objections to girls playing with something that is meant for boys (where am I going wrong?!) - argument being that boys should have something that is just theirs.
This led me to voice my opinions on the matter and to mention that I would consider buying a doll for DS3 (4wks) which didn't go down well, to say the least, with my all-male household. Main reasons being that his brothers would 'take the piss', that he obviously wouldn't want a doll and would tell us as much if he could and that it's not 'normal'.
My main concern is WHY do they think it's so wrong? Where's the harm in it - or rather, what harm do they think it will do?

OP posts:

Thumbwitch · 25/08/2012 12:47

"If your child is being punched, by a group of boys a year or so older, what would you have him do? Curl up to protect his face, stomach and crotch?"

No - I would have him defend himself, which is why he's going to self-defence classes as soon as I can arrange it. And whatever sex the new one turns out, when they get to nearly 5, they will also go to self-defence classes.

Of course it's not perfect as an answer but it's the best I can do for them.

NarkedRaspberry · 25/08/2012 12:48

Read the threads on here about children who are taunted/bullied/hit/provoked and end up being the ones punished for hitting back. It's not as simple as 'hit them back' especially when the bully is likely to have people that back their version of events.

NarkedRaspberry · 25/08/2012 12:49

Yes Thumbwitch. Defence not attack.

OneMoreChap · 25/08/2012 12:59

Where have I suggested attack?

Incidentally, good idea teaching DS/DD to handle themselves anyway; their own physical confidence makes them a less likely target. As does contact sport, rugby, hockey etc. [Playing mixed hockey was a scary thing to do as an adult...]

OneMoreChap · 25/08/2012 13:00

NarkedRaspberry Sat 25-Aug-12 12:48:26
It's not as simple as 'hit them back' especially when the bully is likely to have people that back their version of events.

Nothing in life is simple. What did you do?
I told mine to hit back, hard.

NarkedRaspberry · 25/08/2012 13:03

Tell the child to back off, tell a teacher if they don't then hit back if it continues.

OneMoreChap · 25/08/2012 13:05

NarkedRaspberry Sat 25-Aug-12 13:03:49
then hit back if it continues.

So, not too dissimilar, then.

NarkedRaspberry · 25/08/2012 13:06

'The best way of deflecting a bully is by hitting him so hard he snots himself and cries for his mum.'

Not that similar. Get out of the situation and hit back as a last option.

Yama · 25/08/2012 13:11

There used to be a family with 3 boys near us. Whenever they came round the two youngest would make a beeline for dd's big wooden doll's house and play with it for hours. Was lovely to watch.

They had thousands of their own toys but all 'boys toys'.

Anyway, fast forward a few years and same doll's house is now ds's favourite thing to play with.

Both my dc get to play with the entire range of toys. I have witnessed no difference in the way they play with toys.

OneMoreChap · 25/08/2012 13:11

NarkedRaspberry Sat 25-Aug-12 13:06:43

See, this is what I provide attribution. You are confusing me with another poster.

Incidentally, try getting out of a ring of boys pushing you back into the centre to fight.

NCForNow · 25/08/2012 13:14

I am cross on your behalf. Tell your son that I have just bought my DDs who are 8 and almost 5, a real carpenters set...with sharp tools and everything. They also have a LOT of non pink lego. We don't have the pink stuff here.

NarkedRaspberry · 25/08/2012 13:55

Sorry. I was. You said this

'Punch them. Hard. Make it obvious that they have been hurt'

Big difference.

OneMoreChap · 25/08/2012 14:49

That's right, there is a big difference. It is about making it obvious - to the other children - that somebody has stood up to the bully. He isn't this big huge untouchable monster.

The teachers - well, if teachers were the answer, there wouldn't be the problem, would there?

I think we largely agree, by the way; bring up children to respect differences, but to recognise that is all they are, differences. That mummy and daddy both cook, put up shelves, iron, mow the lawn. That reading doesn't make you a geek; that if someone's parents go to church it doesn't make them fools to be disrespected. That someone eats different food, or dresses differently it doesn't make them less than you, just different.

That's what I did.

I also was a boy, who went to a variety of boys/mixed schools, and have volunteered with boys/young men's groups - and know how some boys behave.

I don't think avoid, tell the teacher, necessarily is sufficient; I feel that sometimes a cogent lesson can be taught - not just to the bully, but to others watching by responding to physical force appropriately.

birdsofshoreandsea · 25/08/2012 17:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OneMoreChap · 25/08/2012 17:20

birdsofshoreandsea Sat 25-Aug-12 17:10:53
If you teach your sons to hit back, what do they do when the bully has a knife?

Seriously?
Scream; run if you can [but often you can't - see above]; throw something. Probably, if someone's got a knife, you're going to die, depending on where you're cut. If it's a marking blade, like a stanley, you'll likely get scarred for life, lose an eye, mobility in your hands.

What did you teach your son/daughter to do?

If someone wants your wallet/mobile/watch - a mugging - I said give it to them... this isn't what we're talking about. It is the deliberate cowing of an individual by physical violence. An appeal to external authority is great - byt right here, right now, where's that authority. Is he going to stop you taking a beating now?

birdsofshoreandsea · 25/08/2012 20:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Uppercut · 25/08/2012 20:45

anastaisia
"you did notice the inverted comma's right?"

You need a better get-out clause than that I'm afraid.

As for teaching my son that he'd be an utter to put his children in humiliating situations just to make a sociopolitical point, I think that's a fine lesson. If he wants to do it himself for himself and understands the consequences, that's up to him and I would support him fully.

NarkedRaspberry
"Actually that's the best way to ensure that your child ends up expelled and with a criminal record while their bullies carry on with their lives."

I'll take that risk over conditioning them to be victim for the rest of their life.

Thumbwitch
"Uppercut - you are of course entitled to your opinion but I have no intention of teaching my child to become an unthinking thug either, thanks. He will not learn to be the aggressor, he will learn to defend himself from other unthinking thugs/bullies. If they get hurt in the process, they'll only have themselves to blame - but he isn't going to learn to smack them before they hit him."

The considered application of physical force, were appropriate, requires a high degree of self control and awareness of the situation. I don't expect you to appreciate this nuance given your naive assessment of those who use violence as 'unthinking thugs'.

If a situation is about to turn physical, especially if you're outnumbered, waiting to be assaulted is stupid. Hopefully he will learn this in his self-defence classes and, for his own sake, not be convinced otherwise by you.

OneMoreChap · 25/08/2012 20:57

birdsofshoreandsea Sat 25-Aug-12 20:19:02
OneMoreChap: Some of us don't feel 'responding to physical force appropriately' means hitting back.

That's fine. Everyone is entitled to a different belief system. I'd rather my children weren't repeatedly beaten by bullies, and my belief is that striking back limits the risk of that. I'd describe it, in games theory, as a retaliator. Your belief is obviously different, and I have no problem with you holding that. I'm sure you extend me the same courtesy.

Your posting style is quite aggressive, by the way; do you mean it to be?

No, by no means. I'd quibble whether my posting style is aggressive; I'd have suggested it might be somewhat didactic, and possibly personalised, as I eschew the style of "some people on this thread..." and will usually directly address comments I perceive as made towards me.

I'm possibly older than many of the posters here being in my mid 50s, and was brought up in a number of countries, and a boarding school; my views are perhaps formed by my education and upbringing - but are usually considered.

Thumbwitch · 25/08/2012 23:22

Uppercut - you're rather stupid if you believe I'm going to suggest to my son that he stand there and wait to be hit.

latebreakfast · 25/08/2012 23:32

"'No, you clueless , I think he'll catch a beating from the other boys"

What, you mean like "He was asking for it because of what he was wearing"?

Yeah, we once used to teach our daughters that one too...

Uppercut · 26/08/2012 12:13

Thumbwitch
"...but he isn't going to learn to smack them before they hit him."

"Uppercut - you're rather stupid if you believe I'm going to suggest to my son that he stand there and wait to be hit."

I fail to see how I'm "rather stupid" because you've decided to contradict yourself.

latebreakfast

"'No, you clueless , I think he'll catch a beating from the other boys"

"What, you mean like "He was asking for it because of what he was wearing"?

Yeah, we once used to teach our daughters that one too..."

To avoid making half-baked analogies try and give at least a light smattering of thought to their relevance before typing them out; my quote contains no justification for violence, merely a statement that I think it likely to happen.

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