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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

What is wrong with a boy playing with a doll?

96 replies

AugustMoon · 21/08/2012 23:36

DS (9) today saw an ad for 'girls'' lego and was quite vocal in his objections to girls playing with something that is meant for boys (where am I going wrong?!) - argument being that boys should have something that is just theirs.
This led me to voice my opinions on the matter and to mention that I would consider buying a doll for DS3 (4wks) which didn't go down well, to say the least, with my all-male household. Main reasons being that his brothers would 'take the piss', that he obviously wouldn't want a doll and would tell us as much if he could and that it's not 'normal'.
My main concern is WHY do they think it's so wrong? Where's the harm in it - or rather, what harm do they think it will do?

OP posts:
AmberLeaf · 22/08/2012 12:59

My two older boys played with dolls. My eldest played with an old one of mine that he found at my dads house when I was expecting DS2.

DS2 requested a baby chou chou when he was 2ish for christmas. I thought my DP may have taken issue due to his jamaican (and stereotypically homophobic/misogynistic) background but he wasn't bothered and it was him that went and bought said pink baby chou chou from toysrus! I was well proud! As he said at the time 'he'll probably be a dad some day so its just learning through play isn't it?'

All three of my boys at varying ages even now always make a beeline for a dollshouse if we ever go somewhere where there is one. My youngest is 9 but we have recently talked about getting one as he has lots of little dolls 'action figures' that could 'live' in it. They are just so expensive. I've always wanted one too!

LurcioLovesFrankie · 22/08/2012 13:09

Thumbwitch- back in the late 60s/early 70s, my dolls pram (purchased by my grandmother in the face of vociferous opposition from me) got used first as a formula 1 racing car, then when I got too big to fit in it (and it developed a permanent list to starboard) I covered it in khaki cloth and used it as a tank for my rag doll.

My DS has a pink pushchair - back when it was purchased, pink was his favourite colour.

VegansTasteBetter · 22/08/2012 13:24

Anybody read cinderella ate my daughter? It explains the current pinkification of toys and how its purely a marketing ploy and a recent one. Even carseats etc where you should be purchasing to match your car are now being sold as pink fire girls. So when you have a boy you have to buy a new one.

Lottapianos · 22/08/2012 13:32

All this gender stereotyping just makes me scream! I work with young children and their parents. From time to time, I run parent workshops about play and social development. I always rant give advice about how important it is to be aware that there are no 'boys' toys and 'girls' toys and that it is important their child gets to play with a wide range of toys, they will decide for themselves what they enjoy or don't enjoy. When I have mum and dad of same child there, the mum always nudges the dad and gives him a 'see, I told you so' look. Dad either sits there like this Hmm and I know he will carry on his neanderthal current thinking no matter what, or he holds his hands up and admits that he had been uneasy about his son playing with dolls etc but was happy to be told he was mistaken!

It's never so much of a problem the other way round either e.g. girls playing with tool kits. I think it's definitely something to do with 'catching the gay' and not be 'masculine' enough.

What really sends me nuclear is what I hear colleagues of mine spouting the same gender stereotyped rubbish - they really should know better FFS!

citiesofgold · 22/08/2012 17:35

My DS (2.9) loves his baby doll and pushchair, they're his favourite toys. It's so lovely to see him 'feeding' his baby and giving her a cuddle! He's also obsessed with trains and planes.

rubyrubyruby · 22/08/2012 17:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
AugustMoon · 22/08/2012 21:14

Sorry for not coming back sooner. This is great - will form the basis of my defence when I get DS3 a baby-doll for Xmas.

Also Grin at 'has he discovered his willy?'

OP posts:
LastMangoInParis · 22/08/2012 22:52

Please keep on ranting, Lotta - you're the voice of reason and it's so sad to hear that paranoid parents and carers are still spouting such bullshit. Someone needs to tell them. thank you! Thanks

Thumbwitch · 23/08/2012 00:24

Just been reading some of that Cinderella Ate My Daughter in an online preview - so this princessification has only really been going since 2000? Wow. Seems like so much longer! I'm sure there was pinkification before that though, via the Barbie franchise - I remember going to a friend's house in the mid 90s and her 5yo DD had about 20 Barbies in different guises.

All very interesting stuff - if DC2 turns out to be a girl, then I'm getting that book for sure.

Lottapianos · 23/08/2012 06:54

That's so kind of you LastMango, thank you!

TiggyD · 23/08/2012 10:58

2000 seems reasonable. Thinking back to the nursery I was in then I can't remember any ridiculous pinkness. (by that I mean toys which could be neutral being turned pink 'for girls'. The very low point has to be the pink globe from ELC.)

StewieGriffinsMom · 23/08/2012 11:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

5madthings · 23/08/2012 11:28

i think thatas about right, 2000. my ds1 was born in 1999 and i dont remember there being stuff like a differention between boys/girls pushchairs and high chairs and it was much easier to buy unisex newborn clothes.

i am amazed at the fact that you can even buy baby gyms in pink or blue etc, ditto playmats and well just about everything you need for a baby come in pink or blue!

i shall try and get hold of a copy of cinderella ate my daughter.

latebreakfast · 23/08/2012 23:05

"WHY do they think it's so wrong?"

Same reason as always, and it's nothing to do with catching gay.

Women have a (much much) lower status in our society than men. This used to be explicit - women couldn't vote, couldn't go out to work, etc. Now we can do all of those things, but the difference in status still remains, mostly subconsciously.

Girls doing "boy things" are encouraged because they are raising their status to that of boys.

Boys doing "girl things" are ridiculed - because they are doing exactly the opposite.

This is why the well-intentioned "pink stinks" has got things completely wrong. By writing off the pink and "girly" they are making things worse not better. Instead they should be promoting free choice about these things for both girls and boys. But of course that would then bring ridicule upon them...

Buy your DS a doll. I'm sure he'll love it, and by doing so you'll strike an unexpected blow for feminism.

Lottapianos · 24/08/2012 06:57

I like that theory latebreakfast

seeker · 24/08/2012 07:02

my ds had a baby doll called Roger.

he's 11 and Roger is still in his room somewhere, he always mysteriously escapes toy culls

Lottapianos · 24/08/2012 07:14

Roger! so cute!

exoticfruits · 24/08/2012 07:26

Mine played with whatever they wished.

OneMoreChap · 24/08/2012 08:22

Bizarre. I had Action Men, and I recall my Dad tormenting me saying "Are you playing with your dollies?" If DS wants a doll, get him a doll. My DS was never very interested in dolls/action figures - he preferred role play be it tools or shop...

I got mocked by some peers for showing DS how to cook (everything from eggy bread to apple pie); DW was very amused at me showing him how to sew shirt buttons on - and she did show him an easier way (who knew?). DD was shown how to change plugs; change a tire, use a drill and use a spirit level. Yes, she can put shelves up.

"Girly" girls didn't use to approve of her, and some boys were cheesed off she could climb better than them. They would hate to see her now, as she is an accomplished alpinist.

SIL banned toy guns. Nephew? Made one out of Lego

Thumbwitch · 24/08/2012 08:38

My Dad could sew buttons on, iron and knit after a fashion. He was taught in the Army (one of the last cohorts to do National Service). Afaik, they're still taught to do those things in the Forces. And why not? Bloody good thing too! He's not much cop as a cook though...
DH can cook but can't sew, does his own ironing (cos he has to); and I can wield a drill and screwdriver better than him.

DS will grow up to at least know how to do all these things - hopefully he will continue to understand the importance of people knowing how to do them.

MisForMumNotMaid · 24/08/2012 08:52

Ds1 8 going on 50 in the back of the car with another child we know. Both have ASD so conversations are often very interesting. Other child to DS 'in our house just the girls have dolls, boys have cars/ robots and I have dinosaurs, therefore dolls are for girls but you have baby (DS's doll) why, when dolls are for girls?'. DS replied 'where is the law that says dolls are for girls? Dinosaurs are just bits of plastic, like dolls, both are just plastic things we have chosen to own'.

We do have to protect him from himself, particularly with age appropriate behaviour, but I do respect his logic in both are bits of plastic.

Thumbwitch · 24/08/2012 08:54
OneMoreChap · 24/08/2012 09:35

Thumbwitch Fri 24-Aug-12 08:38:02
DH can cook but can't sew, does his own ironing (cos he has to); and I can wield a drill and screwdriver better than him.

I can iron, and do so regularly. DW says it is about once a year, because she can't stand watching me iron as slowly as I do. She can do plug & things but prefers not to; we can both do plumbing, but I have stronger wrists for sticking nuts etc.

I can cook pretty well, but find it really irritating I have to weigh and DW does it by eye.

Bringing children up - of either sort - and not teaching them life skills seems crackers.

Whatmeworry · 24/08/2012 09:43

I think if you don't make an issue of it in the home (one way or the other), the kids will play happily with everything according to interest. DS1 used to sew clotes for DD's dolls and manged to not get "The Gays" (Love thet term btw).

And DD's favourite pram-doll was a large, green, cuddly T-Rex....Inter-species harmony, that's what I like

Incidentally, will someone have a thought for poor old Ken, in our house he could never compete with Action Man - that Barbie is such a slapper :o

Also, whatever happened to Teddy Bears, the ultimate childhood comfort doll? We all had them as kids, boys and girls, and now they seem to be massively expensive "adult toys".

Whatmeworry · 24/08/2012 09:47

Just been reading some of that Cinderella Ate My Daughter in an online preview - so this princessification has only really been going since 2000?

That sounds about right, or at least on an industrial scale. I don't remember it being nearly so pervasive in the 90's.

Could just be a trope/fashion thing, as for eg Zombies seem to have overtaken Vampires as Teen Fixation du Decade