Are all men potential abusers?

[MsLydia]

Because I'm starting to feel like they are.

I'm aware that my feelings are based purely on my own experiences and I think I actually want to be told I'm wrong.

I have reached a point where I am so fucked off with the society we live in that I feel like I want to take my children and go and live in some sort of community of women (do they even exist?)

Yes, there are communities of women you could look into joining.

All humans are potential criminals (thieves, murderers whatever) but that doesn't mean that all will be criminals, or that all men will abuse. I'm really sorry that you have encountered more than one horrible man of this nature.

As an answer to the question - I suppose all people are potential abusers. But some have more potential than others and in most the potential doesn't turn into reality.

All people are potential abusers.

But most men aren't actual abusers. Are you ok? You're mentioning your experiences, if you want to talk things through it might make you feel better.

There are communities of women out there, but there are also lots of lovely men who don't act like arses. If you've recently met a lot of arses it probably doesn't feel that way, but it's true.

Yes all people are potential abusers.

But we all make choices as to how to behave, don't we?

All people are potential abusers

Having escaped an abusive marriage, I now see that the same mechanisms apply in DV between 2 people in the home, as do in gender relations between the 2 sexes in a patriarchy.

It sucks, since while we can escape individual marriages (where either the man or the woman can be the abuser), we cannot escape society.

Even though not all man are abusers (thank fuck for that!), women as a class are treated abusively by men as a class. Same mechanisms of blame, shame, menace and control.

I'm fine thank you :)

I'm not talking about criminal abuse I mean the day to day abuse that most people don't even think about.

The small day to day things that all contribute to the bigger picture which has led to a society in which women are oppressed and degraded at every turn.

Even if a man doesn't actively abuse women if he stands by and does nothing whilst others do then doesn't than make him just as bad?

Why aren't all these so called good men up in arms about the way their wives, mothers and daughters and treated by society?

Why don't they take to the streets in protest about the number of women who are beaten, raped and murdered by men every week?

But lots of men are up in arms about it.

Some protests are women-only, not because men don't care, but because they respect women wanting it to be women-only.

Lots of RTN marches are women-only but men are there along the route to cheer, or are at the end making tea for afterwards.

But they/we/I do OP, at times. Last week witnessed a bloke screaming in the face of a v scared blubbing girl (about 10yrs old?). It was at a 'family fun' event, though it was turning into a hell for her. Was with dd's mum when we witnessed it,and it was her who said 'be careful' before I went over and intervened. She was less likely to intervene that I was, for good physical safety reason. It ended with him storming off with girl in hand. Was I right? Not sure - girl may suffer consequence later.

I could be naive in thinking society has shifted a bit, which means abuse of girls and women at least in public is much more taboo behaviour than it used to be. Previously there was a carte blanch attitude of 'it's private', which I think is diminishing.

My experience with family and relationships and even a few strangers has only been extremely abusive (excluding my brother and uncles)

But I don't believe all men are capable of abuse any more than I believe all women are.

Standing by and doing nothing doesn't make someone just as bad as the perpetrator, in any context.

Some men campaign on this issue, as do some women. Maybe some people don't see the problem, or campaign on other issues, or arent the campaigning types.

OP, there are good men out there - lots of posters in this topic are married to some of them.

Well said, ennis, apart from the implications of polygamy. I think some some posters on this topic are married to one good man each!

Yeah, DH doesn't have time to be married to more than one woman, he's got too much washing and child rearing to do!

((hugs)) OP

I really don't want what I am about to say to be construed as me laying the responsibility for abuse with anyone other than the abuser, but I just want to explain how shit just seems to keep piling up when life gets tough.

Abusers are attracted to vulnerability since it maximises their potential to control and minimises the risk that it may backfire. The shit thing is, that our socialisation is all about maximising female vulnerability and bolstering male entitlement to control. HotDAMNlifeisgood says it all here:

"Even though not all men are abusers (thank fuck for that!), women as a class are treated abusively by men as a class. Same mechanisms of blame, shame, menace and control."

And it is not just the sexes that are socialised into this power dynamic, class, race, ability, age, etc factor in and intersect to increase vulnerability or bolster entitlement further.

So if you appear to have any greater vulnerability than most women in this climate eg- 'lonely single mum' or 'far from home with no links', etc, then you are even more likely to be targeted by male abusers than other women. This is in no way a victim blaming statement, just that predators work like that. So if you are hurt in some way, instead of wanting to help you, abusers will see this as a 'way in'. It is why pimps target children's homes- the vulnerability of childhood intersects with vulnerability of female socialisation, with the vulnerability of disconnection from support networks and vulnerability of having survived trauma. So life can be really shit in that way, because through absolutely no fault of your own, for example you are devastated by a bereavement with no one around you to support you, abusers are likely to be circling like vultures.

So that's why I think it is worth having a time in women-only space to regain your trust in people and recover. Although obviously women aren't all going to be sweetness and light, you will have significantly reduced the likelihood of being abused simply by not having men around, since you won't be around people socialised with male entitlement.

FoodUnit, that post explained so much of my life to me shrinks haven't been able to. Thank you so much. I just..I cannot thank you enough.

Great post, FoodUnit. Really struck the right balance.

the same mechanisms apply in DV between 2 people in the home, as do in gender relations between the 2 sexes in a patriarchy...
The small day to day things that all contribute to the bigger picture which has led to a society in which women are oppressed and degraded at every turn.

Just a small observation about women only environments...they can be healing and safe, but they can also be hotbeds of psychological abuse too. From personal and professional experience I have seen women abuse other women in nursing, social care, social services, management and other societies.

I have counselled women with PTSD caused by other women abusers. There may be a thousand different reasons why women abuse, and some may be down to the patriarchy, but please tread carefully and protect yourself in any environment.
An abuser can smell out a potential victim across a crowded staff room, canteen, training session workshop and especially any environment with a closed communal mindset. There be baddies out there, and some of 'em have vaginas.

Many years ago I used to work in hostels for homeless men. We knew some of the histories of our 'guests' - some we didn't. We knew some had a history of abusing other men/boys, and we knew some of the guests who had been abused.
It was horrific to witness how easily the men who we knew had abused managed to 'engage' with the previously abused. Startlingly, this process took a few minutes to begin. The abusers could detect victims in seconds, despite the places having up to 30 men of all ages and experiences, and within a minute or two the process had begun. We worked on a confidentiality basis, but would intervene with 'warnings' to Y to 'stay away' from X - no reason given.

Those previously abused in the hostel had similar characteristics listed by FoodUnit - lacking in trust, had already survived abuse, not 'defended', low expectations of treatment by strangers, basement levels of self-worth, though without the gender aspect. All other characteristics were demonstrable.

Of course not there are 1000000 times more nice men out there than horrible ones.

BeeBee12 I think you reveal a degree of privilege if you believe that! It all depends on the circles you move in, and many people don't have much choice where that's concerned.

Also it depends who you are. 'Nice men'to you can be absolute devils to someone else.

I agree you have to be careful, even of other women. But I still hold to the fact you significantly reduce your chances of abuse as a woman, by avoiding men.