Supporting abortion to term.

[VegansTasteBetter]

Asking this question in feminism because, 1. I don't want a pro/against bunfight and 2 because I have only ever seen this comment made by feminists. *

I have seen the comment made that someone would support an abortion up until term for any reason (so in theory just because they changed their mind would be acceptable I guess).

If you take this stance is it because you feel to decide a cut off date for abortions would be to choose an arbitrary date in a pregnancy and that we need legally to have free access to abortions... but actually if your mate said, "just found out I am 37 weeks pregnant really don't want it, going for an abortion" you would be horrified and because you know it isn't likely to ever happen

or

if in the above scenario would you happily (assuming it were legal) take your friend down to the clinic to get an abortion because you belive the mother's choice trumps the fetus/babies right to life?

I'm prochoice but I have a real difficulty with people saying that it's acceptable for any reason up till term. And in the above scenario (if it were legal) I'd support my friend's right to demand to be induced early for her mental health and to give the baby up for adoption but not for an abortion.

• disclaimer: I am a feminist but don't support this view

SGB when you have to use terms like "whiny" and "superstition" then you lose credibility in your argument IMO.

Comparing a woman having an abortion to FGM is really crass.

One is a woman deciding what to do with her body.
The other is the polar opposite.

That's easy: the moment a baby is born it becomes a person. That's the logical dividing line. And before there's any more waa, waa, what if - how often do you really, really think it's likely to happen that a woman in labour would say, between pushes, I've just decided I want this pregnancy terminated? And if you are shitting your pants over this theoretical possibility, I do hope you are also devoting your spare time and spare change to funding maternity care in the developing world so that wanted babies don't die for lack of midwives/medical facilities.

Why is it crass? Why is one definitely 'wrong' and yet the other that actually ends in a death is not? Abortion at term is hugely different from abortion at 6 weeks.

Seems some people do not have full understanding of the current law in the UK.

In some circumstances abortion up until term is permitted. And not just where the baby definitely has a condition incompatible with life in the very short term.

Also might bear the stats being repeated:
"In 2004, there were 185,415 abortions in England and Wales. 87% of abortions were performed at 12 weeks or less and 1.6% (or 2,914 abortions) occurred after 20 weeks. Abortion is free to residents,[32] 82% of abortions were carried out by the National Health Service.[34]"

Anti-choice rhetoric and activism is always whining superstition. It's not a logical viewpoint at all, unless you hate women.

Actually SGB I have spent my time in Africa actually helping women giving birth to get better treatment.

Why so negative? Why must it be 'hate' for women? Why not love for babies?

I feel you may be a glass half empty type of person.

I believe a baby that can survive alone must have a right to life.

It is crass because in the case of a woman having an abortion she has decided to have that as she does not want to carry and birth a baby (with risk to her mental and physical health and of course the risk of death).

Which FGM a young girl is mutilated, with the aim of causing her permanent damage, possibly causing death. This is not her choice.

It is a stupid comparison. seriously.

Even if the baby's "right" to life comes at huge and possibly fatal cost to the woman or girl?

Yes that is about, maybe not woman hating, but certainly not having any feeling for them as actual people to care about.

In your opinion.

Does the baby have a choice?

Disagree SQ. How would you feel if a baby was delivered at 35 weeks and had immediate fgm performed on her in accordance with her mother's wishes?

Either the individual has rights over her/his own body, or she/he does not.

I am not going to engage with anyone who equates a woman having an abortion with inflicting FGM.

Simple as that

A abortion up until birth. Not any abortion. I have made that clear I believe.

mintyy a baby that has been born is a person with rights. In the UK those rights include not being mutilated through FGM.

Anyone who thinks that a woman or girl having an abortion is akin to performing FGM, who even links the two, is too much of an extremist to engage with IMO.

Yes, of course I hate women....that is such a rationale view to come to

Hahha wow. Only here could someone who think aborting a term baby is wrong could be 'an extreemist'! Good God.

Just saw your post SGB about the woman deciding between pushes to abort.

yes because women really are that horrible. Unpredictable loons, the lot of them, and cruel to boot

Superscrimper: very, very few people who campaign against abortion have any interest in the wellbeing of babies - or mothers. Some anti-choicers actively campaign against things that would help mothers and small babies, such as state-funded childcare, more funding for maternity care, access to contraception and an end to poverty. Anti-choice activism is all about removing women's autonomy, about painting women as uncontrollable, feckless, selfish, wicked animals who won't accept their status as incubators.

Not all women. Some women. Some women will murder their newborn children. Women can be evil and cruel. As can men. Not all women are saints, not all men are saints.

I don't hate all women. I don't think all women are the same. I believe some women are capable of terrible things. Some women. Not all.

Really? When I spent 4 months in east Africa helping at a maternity clinic for women with HIV/AIDS all the women I had come to work with we're anti Abortion yet many of them spent years of their lives helping women get access to better maternity care and saving the lives of many newborns.

Voluntarily btw. Using out own money to get out there and support ourselves the entire time.

Well SGB can I just say I gained huge respect for you in this thread! Not that I didn't respect you before of course

I agree with all of SardineQueen and SGB's posts. You are two of my online, anonymous, feminist heroines! (been reading too much fem lit this week sick in bed)

I support abortion up to term. I'm also proud of this. Because as stated logically and shown in the statistics posted, I really don't see these cold blooded women pushing through labour and demanding abortions.

I have however, seen many tragic and very valid reasons (some posted here) for late term abortion. It's not a black and white issue, and it is not a subject I find pleasant. But I still support the woman's right.

Someone has too, must be horrifically hard to make those kind of choices that far into pregnancy only to be called a baby killer and judged by society as selfish for choosing your own life/doing what was best for you/etc etc.

Some men murder their children - and their wives. It would be far more logical to campaign for heavy restrictions on men's liberty, given how dangerous men are to women and children, but that doesn't seem to happen, somehow.

SGB - which anti choice campaigners do you mean? Surely If they wanted babies to survive/have a chance they'd be campaigning for all the kind of things you mention

Superscrimper: What did they do when faced with a patient whose baby was massively hydrocephalic, to the point that giving birth to it would kill her? What was their take on the 12-year-old girls who were pregnant?