Ghandi, Aung San Su Kiy and other arseholes

[solidgoldbrass]

Isn't it just the case that it's nearly impossible to achieve huge memorable changes in the world without being a bit of an arsehole? You've got to have a massive ego to think you can take on such a challenge, and so it's really not that surprising that pretty much everyone who achieved massive changes for the good turns out to have been a bit of a sod round the house and have various other unattractive traits.

What has Aun san su kyi (excuse my spelling) done against women? Apart from be one? [genuinely interested]

That is very interesting Beachcomber . Depressing.

Yawn re Gandhi.

If you want to look, there is enough dirt on the Buddha, Christ, Mohammad and any other latter day Saint you care to name to cast them into eternal damnation. They all have feet of clay.

So what?

You have to judge what they did achieve, not what you wanted them to achieve in glorious hindsight decades later. As Messy noted so succinctly, today's Saints will be beaten up for things we take as norms now.

I hate the name of honour killings. How disgusting that such hatred is excused by a man's 'honour'.

I also didn't know that about Gandhi prior to MN (which is shameful I admit)

What is this?! A conspiracy of silence? Someone tell is what Aung San Su Kyi did that puts her on the Dark Side FFS??!!

Agree Whatmeworry, some could say its egotistical to seem yourself better than people like Gandhi...

Maybe research Gandhi out side of mn... Only one view agree all.

Isn't it 24HourPARDyPerson .

It is one of the things that gets to me as a feminist.

So many women written out of history - and so many historic men whose noble battle didn't appear to include women in any meaningful way.

nope, still can't find any feminist critique of the stance of Aung San Suu Kyi... except this positive article msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/04/29/aung-san-suu-kyi-speaks-to-women-from-burma/

The thread is about Gandhi's arseHoliness!

ASSK is accused of deserting her family for the greater good of Burma. Apparently, like Devora's uncle, she is also not the easiest of people to get along with for those nearest and dearest.

But IMO none of this should surprise anyone. You don't get to do what she has done as a part time job, or by being easy going and vair naice.

I don't think Aung San Suu Kyi has committed or condoned any atrocities against a group of people. Not entirely sure why she was mentioned tbh

oh heaven forbid a woman should put her job/calling/politics ahead of her family

You get people accused of deserting their families if they just work outside the home.
they are Career Women or Good Providers. Each has a subtext, too.

Wasn't nelson Mandela quite abusive to his first wife, also Martin Luther king was repeatedly unfaithful to his wife.

Totally spot on with the we need them but don't marry them philosophy

GetOrfMoiiLand - I don't think it is shameful to not know.

I only found out the other day too.

These things are not in the films and the history books. (Having said that, they appear to have been written about more than once in the fecking Guardian so perhaps we don't have much of an excuse...)

Thank you for clarifying.
And for the information about Ghandi. I was unaware of this too.

not sure where Buddha fits in here. Please enlighten me? (see what I did there?..). Gowan...tap his phone...

Ok woo alert. But I think that's one of the most fascinating things about the human race. There are no saints. We are all flawed (sometimes deeply, weirdly Ghandi-flawed) but we still have the capacity to achieve amazing things. And we are all products of our time, so whatever we do achieve will never be a concrete achievement, we'll continue to be judged by standards we can't even imagine yet. Don't you think that's amazing?

Wagner. Do we judge his music because he was 'fairly right-wing'...? Age old question.

Same as Gary Barlow.

"Ok woo alert. But I think that's one of the most fascinating things about the human race. There are no saints. We are all flawed (sometimes deeply, weirdly Ghandi-flawed) but we still have the capacity to achieve amazing things. And we are all products of our time, so whatever we do achieve will never be a concrete achievement, we'll continue to be judged by standards we can't even imagine yet. Don't you think that's amazing?

"

I do :)

Yes ES, excepting Buddha. MN challenge laid down.

YY especially to being products of our time - or perhaps more accurately our societies within time.

My admiration of and hero worship for Daw Aung San cost me a job. I lost a job because I described Suu Kyi as my ultimate hero for her views on democracy and freedom. I still hold the same view. She is inspiring and a wonderful example of how a brave human being can change a country.

My boss had never heard of her, and was when I explained who she is. As a subbie I had no rights. I'd been there nearly a year with no problems. Damn me and my political persuasion! :o

I guess the Buddha had to desert his family - certainly lose his attachment to them (see what I did there?)