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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Feminist theory section

131 replies

EclecticShock · 05/07/2012 22:39

Its a bit quiet non existent. I know there's lots of posters here who have something to contribute to feminist theory. Any reason that its quiet? I love the way this chat area is working out but I also think feminist theory is important... Would be good to get a balance and make this an all round board. I'm not experienced in feminist theory, otherwise I would start a thread.

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Whatmeworry · 06/07/2012 13:45

I would love to know more about fem theory. Could we maybe choose a topic or type of fem then discuss the various merits etc?

I did a little Feminist Analysis in the Cock Size thread, maybe it counts as Theory

Liberal Feminists - all cocks are equal (but some are more equal than others....)
Marxist Feminits - to each according to her neeeeeds
Libertarian Feminists - I choose that one. No, that one, or, um...that one.
Eco-Feminists - can a cock be part of a vegan diet?
Sex Positive Feminists - a cock in the hand isn't as good as one in the bush
Radical Feminist - cocks are merely tools of The Patriarchy

Discuss :o

OTheHugeManatee · 06/07/2012 15:18

Whatmeworry Grin

kickassangel · 06/07/2012 16:28

Think I want to be a Marxist feminist. I have neeeeeds. Now do I get some?

messyisthenewtidy · 06/07/2012 19:09

I must have missed it. . What was the FB fiasco about? I thought se of the regulars were being a bit quiet. Hope they come back Sad

HesterBurnitall · 06/07/2012 19:14

I'm just really not feeling like posting on these boards much now. I'm certainly feeling bruised after all the site stuff threads and am not enjoying the snideness that's popping up in many of the threads.

The division between chat and theory seems a bit artificial to me so I'm just lurking in a kind of desultory way.

Whatmeworry · 06/07/2012 20:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

OliviaLMumsnet · 06/07/2012 21:03

Hello all
Can we all try and I dunno, be nice this evening please.
Thanks

OatyBeatie · 06/07/2012 21:12

Perhaps we need some more cock puns to keep things sweet.

The only one I could think of was:

Utilitarian Feminism: seeks the greatest (ha) penis of the greatest number.

Whatmeworry · 06/07/2012 21:18

Sex Negative Feminists - RIP PIV VIP OMG!

24HourPARDyPerson · 06/07/2012 21:31

Me too Hester.
The snarky remarks make me think of malicious gleeful little imps.

I hope the regs come back when the dust settles.

I have always enjoyed their analysis & knowledge. I hope the division between chat and theory will work as intended - as in making clear that a critique of a practise isn't the same as a critique of the person performing it.

I'd hate to end up just as a place for pleasant little chats, though I'm glad we have a place for them too as sometimes it's nice to muse rather than debate.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 06/07/2012 21:36

making clear that a critique of a practise isn't the same as a critique of the person performing it.

This is what I'm hoping for. I'm trying to take a break at the moment (fail!) but will be back next week. Probably quite a few are doing the same.

EclecticShock · 06/07/2012 21:36

Yes to musing and debating.

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Hullygully · 07/07/2012 13:05

Well the chat thing doesn't look like it's exactly working out as a calm and measured place does it?

HesterBurnitall · 07/07/2012 13:15

Aw, but then your play would lack dramatic tension, Hully. You have to admit that 'will the patriarchy crumble and was Gandhi really a bastard?' has much more potential than 'women on the edge of PARD induced harmony'. And that's before you get to the tomato wreathed finale.

Hullygully · 07/07/2012 13:17
Grin
namechangeguy · 07/07/2012 13:34

Do any feminist theories explain recent events on here? How could a group of educated, well-read and civilised women, without any patriarchal interference, fall out so badly when they would appear to have broadly common goals? Would it suggest that conflict between human beings is inevitable, regardless of gender?

OatyBeatie · 07/07/2012 13:45

I think a lot of it is just internet dynamics. There is something very distinctive about discourse within a written community.

In an oral conversation, there are lots and lots of nuances that aid a mutual acceptance of the fact that each of our utterances is only an approximation of what we think, and that our statements will evolve as we refine our ability to communicate the ideas that we have (as well as evolving in response to the contributions of others in the conversation). So we aren't routinely and relentlessly held to account for our former, superceded contributions.

In a written community, what we lose in nuance we "gain" in the existence of a complete written record of all of our superceded conversations. So we feel kind of shackled to these: we feel held to account for them, we feel defensive in relation to them, we feel the temptation to exploit others' earlier poor approximations to the spirit of what they were trying to convey.

And then discourse becomes exegesis. It is no longer about the subject matter directly, it is instead about the texts that constitute the body of ossified former thought. In this respect the internet is weirdly like, say, medieval scholasticism: we circle around former writings that become obsessed over like sacred texts just in virtue of never disappearing from view.

So, much more to do with a general pathology of internet convo than with feminism as such.

OatyBeatie · 07/07/2012 14:14

Sorry to double post, I just wanted to ask, in relation to your post, namechangeguy, is there in fact any widespread belief within feminism that women will always/usually display harmony in the absence of interference "from the patriarchy"? I would have thought that would be a minority view but I don't know enough (or any really) feminist theory to know if that is the case.

After all, plenty of feminist thought allows for the existence of fundamental conflict between women, by giving irreducible reality to conflicts of race or economic class for example. And also, to imply the necessity of solidarity between women implies that you can state a very pervasive communality just on the basis of gender -- which seems to reduce a woman's identity to being wholly a matter of her gender, instead of allowing that women as much as men are diverse and capable of being understood in terms of individual characteristics. (A bit like in a crap TV drama where you have four or five male leads all displaying some male "type" and just one woman, who is only allowed to display the type "woman".)

HesterBurnitall · 07/07/2012 14:39

Those posts deserve an applause emoticon, OatyBeatie.

Namechangeguy,I'd just add that those threads didn't take place in a feminist vacuum hermetically sealed from any and all interference, including, but not limited to, the patriarchy Wink

EclecticShock · 07/07/2012 19:42

I haven't read all the threads, there's quite a few, which is great, on a range of topics. I also like that there seems to be many many more people posting here...we are never going to agree on everything but surely it's a marked improvement?

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fedup2012 · 07/07/2012 19:52

I think it's grandiose and exclusionary a oaty said earlier, but that's because I don't know much about it and wouldn't be able to join in the discussion - so I'm out.

OatyBeatie · 07/07/2012 20:26

I regret saying that I think. Yes, it feels uncomfortable posting "theory" in a separate section, but i guess it has all come about as an attempt to put right some problems, so if it works it is a good thing.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 07/07/2012 20:35

I think the point of the theory section is that we can discuss feminist ideas and analyse stuff from a feminist point of view without people taking it too personally.

Feminism is political but because it deals with the relationship between men and women, feminist theory sometimes analyses things that are at the heart of people's personal lives and that can be painful and provoke an immediately defensive reaction. It's important to get past that personal reaction if we want to talk about women as a group - i.e. if we want feminism to be a political force. I think posting in 'theory' is a way of saying, 'I'm talking about women as a group here and not having a pop at anybody's individual choices'

That's my take on it, anyway. The thread where the new sections were decided was very fast moving with lots of distractions. I hope it takes off and doesn't feel exlusionary.

EclecticShock · 07/07/2012 20:44

Agree plenty, that's how I see it too.

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peoplesrepublicofmeow · 07/07/2012 23:07

well said pubes