I'm going to be brave and start a thread to discuss why we think that some false rape allegations are made

[ChickensHaveNoLips]

And has there been any research in to why? Because I don't buy that there are cackling women plotting and planning to ruin some man's life up and down the country for fun. I suspect that when it does happen, it says a hell of a lot about how disempowered women feel. I find it hard to articulate, but I think that if you are reduced to a sexual commodity, and you are constantly told that your attractiveness to men is your only value, then it might seem that you have very few weapons to strike back with. I'd wonder in what circumstances those claims are made, and what leads up to them.

I really hope that no one reads this and thinks for ONE SECOND that I am dismissing the fact that far more women are raped than make false accusations, and that far more rapists walk free than men are falsely accused. But the 'women lie about rape' gets thrown up a lot, and it causes doubt in general. Maybe if we could work out the how's and why's of false allegations, it would hold less power in a jurors mind.

thanks, sorry about yours too

does anyone know how to delete something off your threads im on thing? when i go back to my normal user name its still there n i dont want it there just incase anyone like dh or anyone at my house clicks it???

I'm not sure. If on a computer/laptop there should be a option to delete it.

shcrawbee, the best thing to do is to report your post and ask MN to delete it

I am so sorry that happened to you

and SP

and anyone else, the lots of "anyone elses"

I assumed I would not be beleived, and never reported my attack.
I think when someone makes a false allegation, we have to question what kind of intolerable situation they must be in. I was in denial, but even when it lifted I was able to weigh up what would happen if I reported him against what would happen if I just stayed silent, and staying silent seemed to be much more in my interest, which is terrible really.

A barrister friend of mine did a case involving false allegations of past child abuse by adult men regarding their time in a children's home. He said they were so damaged, neglected and yes, abused in many ways. To them, making the allegation delivered them attention, help, treatment, empathy they had been in need of their whole lives. Their assessment, to the extent they made it consciously, was the opposite of mine.

Eld it does seem easier to stay quiet. I really wish I hadn't opened my mouth as it got me no where at all.

Like I said up thread I'm dreading the knock or call to say his name as come up again as he's attacked another girl. My reasoning at 15 to open my mouth was to protect others as at the time I had a 4 year old sister and she was who I thought about.

AF thank you

very interesting discussion.
Kudos to all brave enough to share their bad experiences

I actually thought I was alone in how I felt but this thread as made me realise I'm not so thank you for that chicken

I am glad this thread has helped you, SP

ChickensHavenolips,

Interesting thread. Mmm I think the main reason why women lie about rape is that they've no clear information about what reporting rape means. In few words, if women (unlesss they're mental patients of course) knew how awful the process of reporting rape is they would think twice before going to a police station and release a statement they know as false.

Furthermore, if you get prosecuted for false allegations, you'd probably spend in jail more time than a real rapist. I think these women
a) they're completely disinformed
b) whatever the reason they lie for is they wouldn't get any incredible advantages out of it anyway, not as many as they believe.

I'm a rape survivor who got turned into shreds because of a cr@ppy investigation done by the police officers and given that they spent too much time going around in circles, the rapist was let free. So police thought well that they should cover their mistakes accusing someone else, i.e. me for false allegations.
I had to stand the shame of being detained at a police station, being questioned for hours while I was crying myself out in a cold cell (never been to a police station before, I probably got 2 fines in my life!), I was made to undress so I could feel cold and being uneasy during the interrogation and a lot more. I waited nearly 4 months before the Crown Office got aware they had made a mess with the case and the report filed by the police was quashed. In 4 months, I never stop crying and most of the time I wasn't able to sleep at all. I think no sane person would like to get through such an ordeal.

So I guess someone who makes false allegations is 1) insane 2) misinformed and ignorant about reporting.

*I cannot adequately convey my contempt for women who cry rape in order to get out of a sticky situation, for revenge, or just for shits and giggles, playing out a narrative which suits rapists and the Daily Mail. They make it so much harder for real victims to gain support, to gain justice, and to know that they are believed.

Fuck them. I'd throw the book at them*

Good one!! I'll probably jail them myself. These women (shocking what you said in your post!!) fuelled the prejudice against raped women. Unless other crimes, if there are 3 women out of 100 making false allegations, then most women who claim to be raped are liars. That grates on my nerves so much. It's also worth noticing that there more people supporting rapists than rape victims. When you get raped, at least 60%-70% of your relatives and friends will be on the rapist's side. I think that speaks volumes.

I also think that both boys and girls should be equally educated about rape issues. Girls should stop using rape as an excuse to get attention or to punish a man who rejected them. This silly behaviour ends up affecting the real rape victims and survivors. I never stopped a minute to fight against any kind of prejudice and false myth since I came forward and sometimes it really feels like fighting against a hurricane. People who get abused and raped has to bear the burden of being blamed for what they suffered, they get isolated and rejected by nearly everyone, it's no more or less like having a contagious virus.

merlinscot I am so sorry for what you went through. Not all police forces are as incompetent or cruel. My friend was told not to pursue any charges against the woman who falsely and maliciously accused him because "we've been told not to pursue women like this because it might deter real victims from coming forward". So there isn't any consistency across the country, either for rape victims, or for the victims of malicious accusations.

Because its a crime against the body rather than a crime against property for starters.

It immediately is more 'personal' (I don't think thats a great phrase, but its the best I can think of).

Actually, thinking about my post above, men make false allegations too, but that doesn't seem to resonate with the public mind in the same way.

HotheadPaisan, you asked a good question. Because I think there's something wrong in the definition of "rape" too. It is defined a sexual crime.
There's nothing sexual in it. In my opinion if someone is hurting you voluntarily it should be considered a crime of violence.
Actually it IS violent, you get physically forced to do something you don't want, so very often rape victims suffer physical injuries everywhere. I've two permanent injuries after that, my report was in the "category" DV and rape.

Worldgonecrazy, thanks :) No, I know, not all police forces are like that but I guess... they're allowed to be like that because people still nurture a lot of rape myths and police feels authorized to behave like that.. how can I explain it, it's not such a scandal... they act as ordinary people think they should, the victim-blaming behaviour is still quite alive everywhere, at least in such remote areas. Amused about what police told your friend in another part of the country, there's no consistency at all even in the same country!! Here what happened to me is routine, the number of police turning on victims is very high. This land makes its living out of tourism. If they deter victims to come forward, it appears like the crime rate is near the 0%, so that shows a crime-free land, a good place to live in. Up here you can have houses for a very cheap price and have grants too.
It wouldn't appear good if out of nothing police would start prosecuting all the rapists who get reported ;) Politics, grrrrrr

Crime against property carries a higher sentence because private property is very much a bigger concern to men in power. The collective reasoning of our law makers grounded and dripping in misogyny seeking to for ever maintain it's power over women.

DP works in Psych mainly with women survivors of abuse, the most common form of abuse preceding false allegation being childhood sexual abuse. Most of the women have personality disorders (if you even belief such a thing exists!) and false allegations of rape are often part of a wider set of behaviours played out in response to the hurt and pain they feel.

I just want to say that I feel very privileged that posters on this thread who have been raped have engaged with this discussion. I hope it hasn't been too upsetting. Your insights are so valuable, and deserve to be heard. I am so sorry that you were put throught not only the initial violence, but also the systemic failure of the justice system.

I have always thought that property crimes are judged more seriously than 'personal' crimes. It does seem that the law values things more than people. Which is utterly depressing.

No, I think rape is correctly defined as a sexual crime-sex is the particular form the violence takes. That is a unique and horrifying aspect of the crime that the courts rightly highlight. Sexual violence has consequences (pregnancy, disease, ongoing sexual trauma and dysfunction, stigma) that other forms of violence do not have.

So what's the solution then ?

If society genuinely believes that it's better for 10 guilty men to go free than for 1 innocent man to suffer, surely they're always going to use the excuse of false reporting and abiguity to continue with the woefully inadequate system we currently have.

Was Kenneth Clarke perhaps right in his assertion that rape should come with defined tariffs ? Would a jury feel more able to convict if they knew that a there was a rising scale of punishment and that what were perceived as 'less traumatic rapes' (I KNOW there is no such thing ) would be less harshly punished - would they be more likely to convict.

Is that a wholly unpalatable solution while we work on promoting zero tolerance ?

I think the answer partly lies in education - there needs to be more discussion at an earlier age so that girls KNOW what rape is, that boys understand what rape is. It seems incredible how many discussions focus on whether it was rape and perhaps if that was better understood, then there would less accusations of false reporting as society would understand better that rape is rape is rape. No grey areas.

ChickenHavenolips, I feel very privileged that I'm now able to post on a thread concerning rape and false allegations. It took me a long time to accept what had happened to me, in any capacity. I didn't tell anyone for months, I was living in shame and denial.
It's still upsetting but a lot less than it was one year ago. If coming forward served a purpose... in my case it was helpful for my healing process. I had to suffer a trauma after a trauma and if there was a meaning to all that..well I could say it helped me to react, to survive and to move on.
I was very disappointed about the justice system although you'd be surprised to hear that I never really had any hopes to see my ex getting prosecuted. Instead, I was in shock after what happened with the police itself, I got diagnosed with PTSD immediately after, couldn't stop shaking for 3 days. Like it wasn't enough I was already suffering from a severe form of depression after the rape. I'm still shaking these days when I see a police car around.

Eldritch, that has been the debate of the century for a long time. I might add something later but I feel a bit drained these days so I can counter-argument very well at the moment.

Blistory, I don't think there's only a solution, there could be many.
At the moment (I live in Scotland), there are 97% of men who are let free and 3% jailed. I think that even siding with the closeminded version that false allegations are more common than believed, I guess it's a bit hard to say that 97% of rapists who are out of jail are all innocent...that's impossible.

I agree that the answer partly lies in education - there should be more discussion at any level, even adults refuse to get involved in any discussion about rape. They consider it as something that won't ever happen to them (differently from a robbery or a murder), while... that's not true. It could be a good idea to educate everybody about the issue and also to destroy few rape myths, like that a woman can only be raped if she gets drunk, she wears a mini-skirt or she wanders alone at night. A huge percentage rate of rapes happen in a relationship, so we should bring the issue to another level. I wasn't drunk, I wasn't wearing sexy stuff or I wasn't even outside when I got raped, everything happened inside a house walls.
I think that even the justice system gets confused by the "grey areas" and a bit of clearing up is necessary.

I agree with you Merlin. There needs to be a far far better general understanding of what rape actually is. All this bollocks about stranger rape totally masks the true problem. Of course stranger rape does happen but it is the rarest form of rape, yet it is the "type" of rape most people think of when they hear the word. I find it shocking that a woman can be raped and not even realise it - that there is so little education on the topic that a woman can blame herself or feel like she's overreacting even when someone has done something so awful to her. Girls need to be taught from a young age that they are entitled to total and absolute control over what happens with their body - including the entitlement not to be harassed, groped, pinched or brushed against. The idea that boyfriends, friends, partners and husbands can and do rape has to be got across to women so that they can recognise situations where things have gone too far.

It suits men to perpetuate the myth that only evil men rape women by dragging them down alleyways. It allows them to console themselves that having sex with a woman who is too drunk to know what's going on, or pressuring a partner into giving into sex, or having sex with a sleeping partner (as happened to me) is fine, just one of those things, not rape at all. That culture, where women's bodies are fair game and women must protect themselves otherwise rape is just something to be expected, has to change.

HotheadPaisan, thanks for posting that link!!

I could add something about what you said about having automatic sympathy with other victims of crime, that's so true. Years ago I've been involved in a terrible car crash (thanks to a huge pothole in the road, so local council responsible) and I was in a post office during an armed robbery. Both times I got submerged of people phoning me asking how I was, asking for details, etc.
After I came out and reported my ex... silence. I even lost few friends, they had started to treat me like I've been "damaged", like I was dirty and with a sign on my face saying "I'm ashamed I was so stupid to have been raped".

Yeah I think people have a big problem in believing what victims say and also that what happened wasn't their fault.