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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I'm going to be brave and start a thread to discuss why we think that some false rape allegations are made

197 replies

ChickensHaveNoLips · 02/07/2012 10:48

And has there been any research in to why? Because I don't buy that there are cackling women plotting and planning to ruin some man's life up and down the country for fun. I suspect that when it does happen, it says a hell of a lot about how disempowered women feel. I find it hard to articulate, but I think that if you are reduced to a sexual commodity, and you are constantly told that your attractiveness to men is your only value, then it might seem that you have very few weapons to strike back with. I'd wonder in what circumstances those claims are made, and what leads up to them.

I really hope that no one reads this and thinks for ONE SECOND that I am dismissing the fact that far more women are raped than make false accusations, and that far more rapists walk free than men are falsely accused. But the 'women lie about rape' gets thrown up a lot, and it causes doubt in general. Maybe if we could work out the how's and why's of false allegations, it would hold less power in a jurors mind.

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SPsFanjoLovesBrokenBiscuits · 02/07/2012 19:37

It makes sense poster

Dana that's exactly how I felt. I didn't want to accept what had happen so tried to justify his actions instead. Looking back I can't believe I did

CailinDana · 02/07/2012 19:40

It's an understandable reaction SP. Admitting to yourself that you were raped means accepting that someone took the control and autonomy you have over your own body, just like that. It's scary how easily it can happen.

SPsFanjoLovesBrokenBiscuits · 02/07/2012 19:49

If the law took rape seriously then I think the amount of attacks would drop or at least more people would come forward.

Say one person in 100 rape claims are lying. The actions of that one person is how the other 99 are treated and judged.

It happened to me nearly 7 year ago and I still think if it happened now it would have been the same reaction. They had witnesses to say he bragged about it and they said they knew he did it yet there wasn't enough evidence. They could have caught him in the act and it wouldn't have been enough.

ChickensHaveNoLips · 02/07/2012 19:52

I think you're right, SPs. So the question is, why isn't it taken more seriously? Because that genuinely baffles me.

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SPsFanjoLovesBrokenBiscuits · 02/07/2012 19:54

I have no idea why it isn't.

I know people who have been sentenced for petty things like not paying a fine from pissing in the street when was drunk yet theres a rapist freely roaming the streets!

chibi · 02/07/2012 19:55

I don't know

i think it might be the other way round- people come in to it with the assumption that most allegations are false, and the 1 in 100 or whatever confirms that assumption

if there weren't a false allegation rate of 1 in 100 it would be something else that 'proved' it to them

i think society is heavily invested in both creating and maintaining a culture that allows rape to occur with few consequences, whilst denying that it is happening in any appreciable amount

CailinDana · 02/07/2012 20:01

The silly taboo surrounding sex partly contributes I think. Talking openly about sex is seen as a bit off, a bit tarty so saying you were raped is seen as a bit nasty and a bit provocative I think. It's a hard thing to be open about because of the atmosphere of silence around sex in general. Of course the fact is that rape isn't about sex, it's about power and control and it's just as violent a crime as any other assault. I think people tend to see rape as a shameful little secret that you should keep to yourself and for that reason it's shrouded in myth and misunderstanding.

I just get the sense that people believe that a woman claiming rape must be brassy and up for it, otherwise why would she go into a police station and spout her sexual history? And if she is prepared to talk about something so intimate and private there must be something not quite right about her, chances are she's just making it up for attention.

Added to that is the totally wrongheaded idea people have about what rape actually is.

ChickensHaveNoLips · 02/07/2012 20:01

But why do you think that is, chibi? What's the benefit?

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chibi · 02/07/2012 20:05

I personally think that society is predicated on a view that women aren't quite.human, and a lot depends on women having an inferior status

it's like a foundation that supports a lot of other stuff

it is not explicit in the sense that anyone is saying 'here i go, oppressing women, like i do everyday ' but it is part of a series of tacit assumptions

chibi · 02/07/2012 20:07

As to the why, if someone is on the bottom, it is so someone else can be on the top

chibi · 02/07/2012 20:08

I know that isn't a popular view.

maybe it is just mysterious and unexplainable, probably.

ChickensHaveNoLips · 02/07/2012 20:09

Interesting, chibi

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SPsFanjoLovesBrokenBiscuits · 02/07/2012 20:11

Sex a taboo subject for some reason.so rape is something people don't want to hear about. It's easier to act like it diesnt happen and to do that they can't convict anyone as it makes it real.

Catkinsthecatinthehat · 02/07/2012 21:17

It happened to a friend of mine and I was his alibi. I was at a party and a very drunk colleague of his wanted to go home but was too pissed to remember her address. He was trying to sober her up, but she turned round and said 'give me money for a taxi NOW, or I'll call the police and say you raped me.' Which is exactly what she did. What a performance - she went outside tore her clothes, smacked herself in the face, howled and wailed so when the police turned up they were confronted with an injured woman and 6'5 shaven headed drunk man - who was also pissed and pretty incoherent with shock and fear. I was stone cold sober, and along with the other guests managed to persuade the police of the truth of the situation, but he was a whisker away from being arrested. She dried her tears and thought it was hilarious. The police threatened to arrest her for being 'drunk and incapable', but in the end just left. My friend just wept and was in shock for days.

He says he'll never assist a distressed woman again.

A couple of years ago I was on a train when a woman was caught fare dodging. She loudly told the two male inspectors that unless they let her go, she'd say they'd molested her. They shat themselves and backed off. Me and another woman passenger intervened and offered to act as witnesses, and made it clear what we thought of women who pulled that stunt. The police removed her at the next station. The ticket inspector was literally shaking as he took my address.

Yeah, so guess what he'll be recalling if he's ever called for jury service and gets a sexual assault trial.

A good female friend of mine is a teacher and was accused of sexually abusing a teenage pupil. Who had previously accused numerous other teachers at the school - male and female. Despite such a well-documented track record of attention seeking behaviour and false allegations from her accuser, the police treated her appallingly, seeking a 'scalp' rather than the truth.

She now takes any allegation of abuse made by a child against a teacher with a massive pinch of salt.

I've worked with refugee women, some of whom have told the most horrific tales of sexual abuse. I am awed by their courage. I have several friends who have been abused and raped - and none of whom have seen their attacker brought to justice. They are amazingly strong and have survived and thrived after events which could have crushed anyone.

I cannot adequately convey my contempt for women who cry rape in order to get out of a sticky situation, for revenge, or just for shits and giggles, playing out a narrative which suits rapists and the Daily Mail. They make it so much harder for real victims to gain support, to gain justice, and to know that they are believed.

Fuck them. I'd throw the book at them.

SPsFanjoLovesBrokenBiscuits · 02/07/2012 21:23

*I cannot adequately convey my contempt for women who cry rape in order to get out of a sticky situation, for revenge, or just for shits and giggles, playing out a narrative which suits rapists and the Daily Mail. They make it so much harder for real victims to gain support, to gain justice, and to know that they are believed.

Fuck them. I'd throw the book at them.*

Couldn't have said it better!

solidgoldbrass · 02/07/2012 21:27

But people do make false allegations of other crimes. There are posters up in most police stations to the effect that falsely reporting that your mobile has been stolen is in itself a crime, so there's obviously a percentage of people who claim their phone has been stolen when they have either lost it or chucked it in the river in order to get a new one off the insurance. Equally, insurance fraud over 'lost' holiday luggage is not that uncommon.

chibi · 02/07/2012 21:30

ok, but i wonder why the people who lie about, i don't know, theft aren't ruining it for people who really have been robbed, or helping to cement attitudes that most so called thefts should be taken with a pinch of salt or whatever

one person or ten or 7% of the total number etc etc lying about theft, or arson or whatever isn't seen as some sort of comment or slur on those people who have suffered these things, or seen as ruining it for real victims

why do we construct our responses in such v different ways to false accusations depending on what kind of crime took place?

edam · 02/07/2012 21:33

Very good question, Chibi.

Margerykemp · 02/07/2012 21:48

Cases I have known which have been classed as 'false' allegations have been situations where the woman has been found or found herself undressed after being asleep/drunk/unconscious. She/they have not known what has happened so have gone to the police to be swabbed etc. if no evidence of penetration is found then it is classed as no crime. She is branded a liar when she never lied.

ChickensHaveNoLips · 02/07/2012 22:04

That's the crux, isn't it chibi? It's that smokescreen again.

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messyisthenewtidy · 02/07/2012 22:11

Well it could be that being accused of rape is far worse than being accused of theft. And quite rightly so. Or it could also be that the idea of the malevolent woman which was laid down by the founding fathers of Christianity and reinforced during the witch hunts still lingers today.

You only need to turn on the tv to see how established the trope of the bitchy manipulative woman is.

24HourPARDyPerson · 02/07/2012 22:18

It's that old doublethink isn't it.

Rape is such a horrifying crime/run of the mill hazard

KRITIQ · 02/07/2012 22:52

Chickens, it was good that you started this thread. I think within our culture, there is a tendency to disbelieve or at least insist on a much higher level of "proof" in cases of gender-based violence or abuse. Several others have set out the context of institutionalised sexism that contributes to this.

Because of this, people will always ask, "but what about the false claims of rape," and it's important not to say anything that would collude with the myth that this happens alot. However, if we can provide an explanation, and the context for those rare "false claims," then people are more likely to engage with us, and let go of their disbelief than if we just try and brush them off with, "it's so rare, it's not worth talking about." It just needs a lot of care.

It's important to be clear that even of a person isn't convicted of rape, it doesn't mean someone lied (any more than it means a person lies about any crime where someone's not convicted, like mugging, arson or fraud.) Point out that "popular papers" don't print stories about rape that reflect the actual incidence in terms of "false claims," and often include cases where there was no conviction as "fake."

I think it's important though to be careful about how we seek to "profile" women who "do" make "false" claims of rape. As others have said, there are situations where they've been raped, but accused the wrong person due to mistaken identity. There may be those who say they've been raped because they believe this would be more acceptable, say to their family, than to say they'd had consensual sex. That would suggest they have lied to avoid some kind of "punishment," which in itself is not right.

As a few others have said, many of those likely to make false accusations are also likely to make false accusations about other things, perhaps because they don't have the capacity to get what they want or need in life through communication and negotiation. Sometimes, they will have been "taught" to get what they want in need this way from parents, peers or abusers.

Be very careful though of saying that those who make false claims are likely to be mentally ill. It is true that some people who are mentally ill will have delusions or make false claims about all sorts of things as a part of their illness. However, let's not forget that there are many, many people who experience mental illness, and ARE raped. In fact, abusers may "home in on them," because they are aware of their vulnerability AND the likelihood that they won't be believed (so they'll get away with it.) It is important not to inadvertently suggest that people with mental ill health are more "prone" to false claims.

There was another point upthread that bothered me alot when I read it - about the 13 year old girl who said she was raped but was actually "hanging out with drug dealers," or similar. If she had sex, even with "consent," it's still child abuse, still rape. She may have been told by the dealers to say she was raped to keep them out of trouble, or more likely, threatened her if she did anything to implicate her. Chances are she'll have exchanged sex for food, drink, drugs, phone credit, etc., and that chain starts with child abuse, usually sexual abuse. Too often, we DON'T see situations like that as child abuse, but we should.

schrawbree · 02/07/2012 23:23

ive name changed to post this, im a regular but i normally only lurk in feminism. i was raped and abused as a child/teenager and everyone in my family thinks i lied about it and made it up.
it went to the stage of him being arrested when i was 15. noone supported me at all, when my mum spoke to me in the police station after hearing the 'allegations' instead of asking me is it true he raped u she said 'is it true, did you have sex with him' i just couldnt bring myself to say yes cos of the way she asked so i said no. mum was like 'oh then its all a misunderstanding'
they didnt get any evidence from the physical exam so felt like it was my word against everyone elses and noone believed me at all
so couple of days later i went back and made a 2nd video statement saying that i made it up because i 'got confused'
it would have been recorded as false accusation. probably recorded as being due to mental illness because i was seeing psychologists at the time, used to self harm and was quite mentally unstable at the time
just because its recorded as false doesnt mean it really is false, which im sure people realise on here but just thought i would put my experience
and the way that people did not accept it and actually think im a liar, makes it a lot worse. its really horrible to know that so many people in ur family actually think u make up that kind of thing. that person is a 'loved by everyone' type and i was a screwed up and trouble maker teenager, and i think it's just easier and more convenient to believe these things are lies.

it really really hurts me when u hear people speaking about 'women make up fake accusations of rape' because i know that technically i would have been classified like that, and it just sucks
so so sad to hear about women put in jail in cases like this it makes me fking angry!! and scared - if i was slightly older at the time maybe that could have been me??

but interesting thread though.

SPsFanjoLovesBrokenBiscuits · 02/07/2012 23:25

I was also 15 and I know some people don't believe me because nothing happened to him.

Sorry to hear about your experience Thanks