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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's tennis and equal pay

297 replies

messyisthenewtidy · 28/06/2012 14:15

Can I ask what everyone thinks re. the recent furore over women's equal prize money at Wimbledon?

Surely, the fairest solution would be to let women play 5 sets? Or am I missing something fundamental here?

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Helxi · 01/07/2012 09:12

Feminism 101: when you've got nothing intelligent to say in response to an argument, create an ideologically-driven strawman and start chanting irrelevant slogans.

Yawn indeed.

BIWItheBold · 01/07/2012 09:13

In some ways I don't find it surprising that a man (I'm assuming you're male, given the comments that have been made, Helxi, saying you are so?) would make an argument that women don't deserve to be paid as much as women.

I do find it constantly amazing that other women would argue against equality for women.

WicketyPitch · 01/07/2012 09:34

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WicketyPitch · 01/07/2012 09:37

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AbigailAdams · 01/07/2012 09:37

Actually it is misogynistic Wickety.

BIWItheBold · 01/07/2012 09:37

Absolutely, wickety. This thread is so depressing.

WicketyPitch · 01/07/2012 09:38

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AbigailAdams · 01/07/2012 09:38

And it us completely irrelevant to the debate.

yellowraincoat · 01/07/2012 10:47

Helxi, you're not making arguments. You're just mouthing off.

There is nothing to intelligently respond to.

messyisthenewtidy · 01/07/2012 10:59

Helxi are you preaching to us or to yourself? Sounds like you need to heed your own words.

Acknowledging that both sexes grunt but that it only annoying when the women do it because of their shrillness sounds pretty damn misogynistic to me. Yes yes, it's the shrillness that is annoying not the gender of the shrieker yet shrillness is associated with higher voices which women naturally usually have. Thus it's annoying. See how it works?

Can't believe we even have to discuss women's grunting habits on court! Wtf does it have to do with anything? Johnny Mac used to disrupt with his swearing. Boris has been known to dig out his bogies whilst being interviewed but nooooo it's the shrillness that's annoying!

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Helxi · 01/07/2012 17:32

BIWItheBold

"In some ways I don't find it surprising that a man (I'm assuming you're male, given the comments that have been made, Helxi, saying you are so?) would make an argument that women don't deserve to be paid as much as women."

You've assumed I'm male on the basis of something I haven't actually said.

I think the players' prize money should be whatever the All England Club deems economically feasible.

messyisthenewtidy

"Acknowledging that both sexes grunt but that it only annoying when the women do it because of their shrillness sounds pretty damn misogynistic to me. Yes yes, it's the shrillness that is annoying not the gender of the shrieker yet shrillness is associated with higher voices which women naturally usually have. Thus it's annoying. See how it works?

Can't believe we even have to discuss women's grunting habits on court! Wtf does it have to do with anything? Johnny Mac used to disrupt with his swearing. Boris has been known to dig out his bogies whilst being interviewed but nooooo it's the shrillness that's annoying!"

'Grunter' is a derogatory term that I applied to both sexes. Both sexes. Seems fair to me. Sharapova happens to be, IMO, the worst offender both in terms of volume and the fact that she does it nearly every. single. time. she hits the ball. And yes, she is shrill, deliberately I suspect, which makes it all the more audible than a lower pitched grunt you might find the Williams sisters making.

That she uses her female vocal chords for the purposes of gamesmanship is not my fault.

As for the men... they tend to be more aggressive both physically and verbally, sometimes outrageously so, and should be sanctioned accordingly. As they should if they start grunting on every single shot, thus masking the sound of the ball hitting the racquet, i.e. cheating, and making the sport almost unwatchable.

And when I'm watching a tennis match I've never seen Boris come on court and start picking his nose, consequently I couldn't care less want he does with his nostrils.

All of this relates to the fact that I do not think women should play more than 3 sets, regardless of the prize money. I don't think it would be good television for the reasons stated, mostly the lack of depth of talent in the womens' game. Oddly enough no one's denied that, instead you're getting upset about the word 'shrill' being applied to one female player who I suspect knows precisely what she is doing. You're not even denying the truth that she is shrill and bloody awful to watch. Bizarre.

BIWItheBold · 01/07/2012 17:37

Well the prize money is equal for men and women, so presumably the AELTC find that feasible. Goodness only knows why we have to argue about it here.

Are you male? Not that it really matters, but I thought from comments that had been made about/to you that you are.

SardineQueen · 01/07/2012 17:46

You were the one making rather offensive comments about women screaming "like they're going into labour", Helxi, so it obviously is the case that you find it unacceptable for women specifically to make sounds when they play.

noddyholder · 01/07/2012 17:47

They are on the court much less time so unless they make both best of 5 I don't see the problem

SardineQueen · 01/07/2012 17:48

Women don't tend to make loud noises when they start to go into labour BTW.

When experiencing contractions at later stages, or actually giving birth women can be very noisy. Because it really fucking hurts. HTH.

SardineQueen · 01/07/2012 17:48

I don't see the problem with 5 sets for both. I have read female tennis players say that they would like that. They aren't allowed to though.

yellowraincoat · 01/07/2012 17:48

Well, she isn't going to use her male vocal chords is she?

OF COURSE the women have higher-pitched grunts. They have higher-pitched voices.

SardineQueen · 01/07/2012 17:52

A lot of men basically say they don't enjoy watching women compete in sports, and so actually they shouldn't really bother. Or if they do it shouldn't be televised etc so men aren't subjected to it, leaving air-time free for "proper" male competitons.

The minor points about many women wanting to compete, and many people enjoying watching them, seems to be completely missed.

missmaviscruet · 01/07/2012 18:02

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SardineQueen · 01/07/2012 18:09

It was equalised 5 years ago missmavis.

messyisthenewtidy · 01/07/2012 18:09

"mostly the lack of depth of talent in the womens' game. Oddly enough no one's denied that,"

I think you'll find that I have but just for the record: I love women's tennis. It's awesome. I love the rallies, the tactics, I've always loved it. I was brought up watching navratilova, Chris evert and steffi graff by my mother who would wax lyrical about Billie Jean King. I remember the very first grunter: Monica Seles and I remember when the Williams sisters burst onto the scene.

So you see I'm not just saying it out of a feminist need to defend equal pay, but because I genuinely believe that when you say women's tennis isn't as worthy you are in fact spewing a load of crap. I haven't denigrated men's tennis in the same way as you have women's because that's not my style.

It's easy for you to sit on your arse and be so judgemental banging on about viewing figures and grunting, but those women work just as hard all year round, dedicate their lives to a sport and deserve to be recognised for it.

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missmaviscruet · 01/07/2012 18:11

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Krumbum · 01/07/2012 18:14

What makes you say that women are less talented? Don't they NEED to have all the same skills to be able to play to that level. What talents do the men have that women dont? I can't see how this is possible, you need to use all the same skills in order to actually play a game of tennis. What is it the men do?

yellowraincoat · 01/07/2012 18:16

Talent is a pretty specious concept anyway. Most of it is probably down to having the right conditions, working their arse off, encouraging parents, being in the right place at the right time etc.

All of which, I'd imagine, applies across both genders.

missmaviscruet · 01/07/2012 18:17

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