scottish feminists -

[weeonion]

Dear Sister

As you may know Rhoda Grant MSP is taking forward work to reduce and prevent sexual exploitation, through introducing legislation to criminalise buying sex in prostitution.

Trish Godman MSP held a consultation on this issue in 2010 which resulted in around two thirds of the respondents supporting the proposed legislation. Rhoda is submitting her proposal to the Justice Committee tomorrow (Tuesday 19th June)and is asking that the previous consultation be regarded as sufficient. This would mean that she could then submit her Bill without further consultation. There is also a danger that the expense of a further consultation might deter the Committee from taking forward the proposed legislation at all. This suggestion is being strongly opposed by pro-sex work campaigners as they want a lengthy consultative process that they can prolong in the hope of derailing any new legislation..

I am therefore asking you to send an email to the Justice Committee, today or tomorrow morning, stating that you support proposals to criminalise buying sex, and that in your view the previous consultation was competent and sufficient. The latter is the key at this stage.

This is really urgent. Please email now if can and ask others to do so also.

You email to [email protected]

The clerk is Peter McGrath or you can address it to Christine Graham who is Convenor. If you have time you could also email individual members. All details can be found on the committee page www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/CurrentCommittees/29845.aspx

Many thanks,

As we already have laws against rape, but we seem to fail to convict an awful lot of rapists.

Okay so everyone is agreeing that prostitution is harmful and not an empowering choice then? So the issues is how we get rid of it?

We know from places that have liberalised prostitution, the amount of prostitutes have increased. So that doesn't seem to work.

As does trafficking.

So how does those arguing against this bill propose we get rid of prostitution?

The women most damaged by prostitution tend to have pretty shitty backgrounds, having been in care, and/or are addicted to drugs. So, improving the care system would be a start.

Eatsbrains, it can be harmful to women, same as war, disease, poverty. We sometimes forget for millions of women there isn't a health service, benefits for single parents, or widows. The highest and fastest money they can make is via selling sexual services.
For some it's either getting married, becoming your husband's property and having no rights over yourself, or selling sex and having autonomy over your life.
The training programmes some ex prostitutes are placed in allow them only jobs that give a subsistance living and working long hours in poor conditions. Start a charity which pays Third World women the equivalent of their prostituting wage every week and they will have real options to leave and make a new life. IMO, that's a far more realistic way to make real changes and reduce women in prostitution.

Oldlady, women coming out of care are vulnerable women, that's why they end up being used by men - it's easier to pick on someone with problems. What the international pimps do now is pick on younger women, who are vulnerable in a different way. Hence the 16 year old Albanians.

I post again the link to a group who have SPECIFIC KNOWLEDGE, made up of ngo's who work with trafficked women. Now I know that it is not popular to say that feminists need to listen to others, but I would have thought over 106 ngo' some working with prostitutes all over the globe might actually have things to say that are from experience and knowledge not just feminist bashing perspectives.
www.gaatw.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=627:ngo-joint-statement-the-untoc-5th-conference-of-parties-18-october-2010-&catid=102:Briefers&Itemid=22

I agree that in the 3rd world providing a way for women to earn money in alternative ways, would make a big difference.

But I suspect I am different from some posters on here in that I actually know women who are ex prostitutes - and not through political stuff. For 2 of the 3, making it illegal for clients probably would have stopped them getting in to it. For the other - an ex girlfriend who ran away from home at 14 and then lived on the streets - proper care for vulnerable girls would have made a difference. Legalised brothels would not have helped them avoid or escape prostitution.

I did not run from answering the burning issue of my gender although since I sound like a man I am not sure actually knowing I am one makes any diffrence.

I am still perplexed however why that should be of any relevance unless in some reverse sexism only females have a voice? In which case can I point you to another thread on the feminist boards talking about why men post on this area on mn

Yes, notnanny, women (and men) coming out of care are vulnerable. So we need to improve our care system so that young people coming out of the system do so with as much chance of a good start as any other child. Not vulnerable, unsupported and fearful, so they depend on others who then abuse them.

Lurker - Trafficking is already illegal. So it is obvious more needs to be done to tackle this. Criminalising the women who are trafficked and sending them back home, often to be retrafficked, is obviously not going to help.

Taken from the GAATW 'About Us'

GAATW sees the phenomenon of human trafficking intrinsically embedded in the context of migration for the purpose of labour.

GAATW therefore promotes and defends the human rights of all migrants and their families against the threat of an increasingly globalised labour market and calls for safety standards for migrant workers in the process of migration and in the formal and informal work sectors - garment and food processing, agriculture and farming, domestic work, sex work - where slavery-like conditions and practices exist.

This is an organisation that exists to protect workers and they compare sex work to farming. They are based in Thailand, where sex work is simply another kind of work. The 106 NGOs are supporting GAATW's work in this context.

Absolutely agree with you OldLady. The care system stinks.

Eats. I think I am right in saying that no one has said that prostitution is anything other than exploitative and dehumanising. The debate seems to be the best way of reducing it till it no longer exists. I like what you say about the third world, in many ways we were told part of the war in Afghanistan would be to curb the opium trade by allowing farmers to grow other crops. Unforunatly this has not been as successful as hoped.

The same type of attitude needs to form part of the strategy for giving women other means to control their own lives. Economically impoverished women, women who are lead to believe that they have no skills and no hope of employment, women who see themselves as baby makers, women who have little or no self esteem are always going to be preyed upon, the same as all vulnerable people are preyed upon by stronger bullies. This is why I argue that criminalising is not enough it is not a solution, it probably will force women in to more dangerous and ultimately life threatening situations. Look we are already aware that they are commodities being trafficked, bought and sold. My chief worry is that the life of each of these women become worth less and so in order to make profit for those who control them, the market becomes more extreme.

Vulnerable women are coerced into prostitution because it is an easy way for men to make money with low risk. One of the women I know who used to be a prostitute is borderline in terms of learning difficulties. She doesn't have lwo self esteem, but she is vulnerable.

As long as prostitution is a relatively easy way of amking money, women like her will be coerced into prostitution

Sorry x posted with you eats, I am sure if I made it sounded like those trafficked need to be sent back I did so by mistake, I agree all people trafficked for what ever reason should be given asylum status as I cannot see how it would be possible for them to return to their own country and not be worse off.

Notnanny. So on reading one part of a page of a large web sight you need all you have to to dismiss what they say. Given that they are based in Thailand (something that I did not know) I cannot think of a more appropriate location considering all the forced workers who are taken to Bangkok for sex work, hotel work, cleaning jobs, and other service industry jobs.

Feminists don't wants to persecute prostituted women. Nor do we think theyare all victims. Our focus is pimps and punters. Wherever the market exists, supply of women & girls will be found. Average age of starting in this 'career' - 13. Unlucky for some. What kind of man pays to rape a THIRTEEN year old girl? Will he stop if it's decriminalised? Good luck with that.

Julia, having sex with a minor is a criminal offence and carries a hefty prison sentence. Buying sexual services from another who is 18 or over is not a crime in the UK. You criminalise the purchaser of adult consenting sex, what difference will it make to the 13yr old ? The purchaser is committing an offence as the law stands now and if it was decriminalised would still be committing a crime.
Anyone know how much it costs for the surveillence in Sweden to apprehend a person paying for sex? I have no idea but would genuinely be interested in some figures.

A few thoughts.

I don't think you can argue that criminalisation doesn't work, because it's still happening.

Murder is still happening, I don't see anyone clamouring to decriminalise that.

Also the problem with decrim is that it is essentially relying on the sex industry to regulate itself, but we know that industry (any) left to itself merely enriches the bosses and screws over the workers, particularly the most vulnerable.

I understand that there is a conflict between harm reduction and abolition and that abolition measures (which in some countries has focused on criminalising the women and stopping them working in ways they say are safer and accessing health treatment) must be tailored to the women's needs.

But ultimately I can never be pro decrim, because it's too much about "normalising" the sex industry and to me, that's normalising objectification and exploitation of women.

While women are seen as the sex class, the purchase of sex can never be neutral.

The buisnness model is exactly the same as marks and Spencer verses aldi. One is better quality the other is cheaper and comes with less frill.

How can you even write this? These are women, real human beings. They are not pieces of meat to have their quality compared like "Marks and Spencer vs. Aldi". What a sick, evil thing to write.

The idea that paid sex is 'consenting' is laughable.

I would be happy with every penny spent exposing the kind of creature who thinks they can buy a human being, even on an hourly basis.