do you believe in the patriarchy?

[bejeezusWC]

A poster on another thread said she views feminism as the struggle against patriarchy. That is how I view it too. I believe that is considered the rad fem stance?

Another poster said she didn't believe in patriarchy

I don't geddit

Why/how are women so unequal if not for patriarchal societies? WHO has been oppressing us?

Please tell me what you think, if you don't believe in patriarchy

Turnip - I have seen it in very young and very trendy women. But don't think its considered trendy when you are of the age to actually get grey hair naturally

Am I a man? Why don't you check my posting history :). I have female biology, I have given birth, I have periods, I have breasts err... Anything else you wish to know? I'd say undeniably that by your definition I'm all woman :)

OK, Turnip & Eats, I'm goin' a-huntin' fer that thar 18th-century grey! Cheers!

It will be fashionable on older women, believe me.

On that beautiful note, I bid you goodnight. Sleep tight.

Is this the kind of shade you were looking for?

Wait, tha's a bit silvery, isn't it... I mean, these are all quite recent So, there's hope yet

Belgian women, of an age, all seem to die their hair this burgundy colour and get it cut really short. Tiz bizarre.

Sorry Eclectic. There have been other posters here who when someone has said they are a man, it seems like everyone has known except me

Sorry ES, but you post so much from the male perspective. Tis like debating with Larry....

With the discussion about older women, I have to link to this brilliant Tina Fey quote here www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2012/03/13/old-ladies-talking-in-public/

I think it's very telling that the two "worst" insults a woman can receive is old and fat.

Ageing feminist S&B hair-silvering update:-

Yes, Frothy, those look great, thank you!

OMG, I've been investigating hair colours for more than 2 hours! And this is what I'm going to try:
One of these or two if it doesn't bleach out enough,
Followed by a combination of these,
Regularly toned with this and this.

It'll take a few weeks as I think I'll have to even up the roots first with my usual "Natural baby blonde" and then wait a bit before attacking my head with a fresh onslaught of chemicals.

My aim is to get my dyed hair to look more or less like the new hair, so I can ideally limit colour treatments to the odd toner rather than all-out war against nature. I don't think I've got enough white for it too look stylishly silver, but I'm hoping for an approximation of superbly steel

I'm mildly concerned that literally grey hair will make me look even more tired than I do already - but what the hell. If I need to look lively, I shall resort to the traditional older woman's slash of lurid lipstick.

Beauty update over.

Also, GothAnne, I don't give a flying fuck whether some narcissistic male twerp wants to shag me or not ... I don't want to shag him!

I know it's really a much bigger and more sinister issue but, as I spend quite a lot of Mumsnet time grumbling about the lethal effects of sexism + ageism, am perfectly sure I'll come back to it. Not back to his offensive article, though!

Ageism doesn't only impact on women, btw. It's true that women get the thick end of everything but, on the whole, I feel ageism needs to be robustly addressed as a separate issue.

garlic - maybe you should ask the advice of the posters on syle and beauty re. not looking tired

have i wandered into S&B by accident!

i actually had a lot of fun on there one night - turned out i was quite good at finding outfits for particular height, body shape, event etc just the one night mind.

i agree that the interesting question is not do you believe in the patriarchy but why are some women highly invested in denying it's existence or minimising acknowledgement of it's effect on women's lives?

That seems very complicated garlic wouldn't it be better/ cheaper to go to a shop?

Was going to post a serious response to some earlier Qs, but it's all gone a bit hairy.

Hairy Him?

Swallowed - I have thought about this a lot. I think it is the same mindset as - I pulled myself up by my bootstraps, I don't see why anyone else can't.

Its as if by denying the realities you protect yourself from the knowledge that you are not as powerful in terms of your own life as you would liketo be.

I think you can even see this in some of the rape myths - If she wasn't wearing a skirt that was more than a belt that wouldn't have happened. Its like thinking, well I don't do that so it won't happen to me. Like trying to grab back a sense of power and control.

Yes, I agree with dittany, sAf and anyone else who has raised the issue.

Why are so many women so invested in minimising the effects of patriarchal society? Why the mental contortions and grasping at anything (including calling other women liars, etc) rather than look patriarchy in the face and name it for what it is?

These sorts of questions remind me of a discussion DH and I had after we watched The Matrix for the first time. Would you rather see or not?

Except with male dominated society, surely it is difficult to not see? You actually have to make quite an effort.

EBAL I think that is an element of it.

EBAL - as in hair!

i think there are issues of relative privilige too. defenders of the status quo are usually profiting from it and fear change will mean loss for them.

I did let out a little chuckle at the "It's all got a bit hairy" comment.

And after zero sleep, I'm capable of even less input than yesterday. :(

Him - Of course - sorry bit sleep deprived like Frothy. Doesn't stop me putting my tuppence in though!

Actually Frothy, you sound very sleep deprived!

Thanks, EBAL

I'm not sleeping well, atm. But oh well. Can I blame teh patriarchy? It's actually STBXP, but same difference