do you believe in the patriarchy?

[bejeezusWC]

A poster on another thread said she views feminism as the struggle against patriarchy. That is how I view it too. I believe that is considered the rad fem stance?

Another poster said she didn't believe in patriarchy

I don't geddit

Why/how are women so unequal if not for patriarchal societies? WHO has been oppressing us?

Please tell me what you think, if you don't believe in patriarchy

Maybe her hair colour had nothing to do with what people took away from hearing her speak... Maybe it was her words, novel idea, I know.

Porto - I understand what you mean. Women in their early 40's who don't die grey hair are as rare as hens teeth ime. They do exist obviously, but not common

porto i think i know what you are saying- you admired her for not succumbing to dying her hair- for making her way, grey hair an' all- quite brave? bit of a risk? conveys confidence/lack of caring what other people think of her?

Sorry double post, phone not coping with long thread.

Dittany, I will try to my personal opinions on posters to myself but it seems I am not allowed the same courtesy. I have a fairly good idea of what particular posters think of me on here, from their posts. They may pass talk guidelines but they are still fairly direct.

I would have been happy to talk about it if you are talking about it from a feminist perspective - which you are.

yy. It IS rare that women don't cover their grey hair, at least before they reach OAP status. So yes - it does convey confidence. Hence -my interest. I would have gone for the Clairol long before that point. So thinking about it from a feminist perspecitve, why? Men don't do that. I know plenty of grey and even bald men the same age as me.

Personal choice Porto ? Maybe they like how they look better with their original hair colour as that is what they are used to seeing in the mirror everyday for 40 odd years.

I am very much looking forward to 'blue rinses' - do they still have them? HOW did they come about?????

My mother's in her 60's. Under all her hair dye, we've not seen a grey hair on her head yet.

It's that fear of becoming an "old woman", isn't it? She refuses to be called "Grandmother", "Granny", or anything other than "Nanny" on the basis that "Nanny" can be used for a younger person as well, and grandmothers are "old" woman. Old... It's a repellent. And I don't just mean to her; It's a strong enough repellent to woman that we've built a multi-million pound industry on the back of the fear of becoming "old".

Dittany, I haven't seen one post denying partriarchy, only trying to frame it in context.

I confess to feeling bewildered about the grey hair. If grey hair really is a feminist statement these days, things have got worse than I realised! I'm afraid I think So Fucking What - with the sole exception of a grey-haired model I used to know, whose extremely successful career was based on being both radiantly beautiful and visibly 50. But she was a model, her looks are the point.

More interesting to wonder why the other 40-odd delegates were men, perhaps?

Btw, I'm not dismissing the beauty imperative. I worked in advertising, where I had to put up with people gushing daily about how I didn't look my age. (I always said I did, since I look the way I look and am the age I am!) It's a vexing topic for sure. I just didn't get the impression that such shallow values were as much of an issue in Porto's scenario. I assume she is respected because her work is good; end of. In fact, if the ratio of 40/1 is typical of her industry, she probably has to be the very best to maintain her position ... that's the pressing problem, imo.

I'm also waffling, Porto, am too tired to compose elegant posts, please forgive.

I am guessing she didn't have grey hair for 40 odd years...

Signs of ageing can for some signpost the end, like deafness or increasing fragility. Some people don't want to acknowledge that they are getting closer to death.

Dittany - I think lots of people struggle with the idea that they don't have totally free choice and that they are discriminated against. Peopel like to feel they and others have more control than they do

Goodness, in a few months I will be that unusual woman in her 40s who doesn't dye the grey bits.

summat that was touched on a short while ago...that I was musing over just last night...single parents vs 2 parent families, being very much better for the children...is that because it is considered better to have the male influence in the house AND the female influence???

I was thinking how same sex parents who are together are at raising successful kids...is it the presence of 2 parents in the home that is considered good?

wait...ill start a seperate thread

bejeezus since you ask Blue rinse is still essential for ageing blondes! It tones down the yellow (even white hair gets it). If you follow the directions, you don't actually go blue!

Though I have considered it. I had blue hair in my teens; I might regress

I'm always fascinated by those that buck the status quo and those that reject the messages that are being chucked at us left, right and centre. I totally get Porto's musings.

That was my point Porto. My dad is getting incredibly deaf but is in denial. It's common.

Its because our society fears old age - only youth is valued. And I think the pressure is worse on women than men

I agree dittany

garlic - no one in THAT particular room was making judgements based on appearances. I was just wondering to myself about perceived norms and it made me ask myself about whether I would dye MY hair and what that means...