do you believe in the patriarchy?

[bejeezusWC]

A poster on another thread said she views feminism as the struggle against patriarchy. That is how I view it too. I believe that is considered the rad fem stance?

Another poster said she didn't believe in patriarchy

I don't geddit

Why/how are women so unequal if not for patriarchal societies? WHO has been oppressing us?

Please tell me what you think, if you don't believe in patriarchy

Feminists aren't narrow minded. Seeing patriarchy in every human interaction is myopic.

Cough Kettle, black.

You're calling a woman, who has listed a recent experience of sexism a liar.

You're calling a collective feminist belief "narrow minded".

And now you're choosing to call me ridiculous.

Maybe I'm having a less serious than usual day, but I come here to converse with like minded people, not to see the political beliefs of the people I care about ridiculed. There are more sensitive ways of saying "I don't agree".

My answer is that in general women don't want to do it. Either because they haven't been educated about it or because they would rather do something else, there are so many reasons. No one is oppressing them and stopping them.

No, but Wasabi has told us about her experience and in this case, it is because she was a woman.

But you don't believe her.

Because teh correct way to receive a woman's experience, is to invalidate and dismiss it, right?

But hey, you're a feminist because you say you are.

I think men are much better than women and cleverer and work much harder and it's right and proper that they should slap women around every now and then when they get a bit uppity and I'm glad that they rule the world. but I'm a feminist and I will be outraged and insulted if anyone says I'm not and accuse them of thinking they own feminism and being narsty ole bullies.

I didn't start to see this stuff because I became a feminist. I became a feminist because I saw it.

Agreed, Rulers. That's the same order it happened in for me, too.

Sure dittany, some human interactions are influenced by patriarchy, some aren't and some we shall never know what the influences are.

Actually, I did several days of vendors presenting on a project. 20 people in the room. For 3 of the days, I was the only woman. On the 4th, there was ONE woman from the vendor side. About the same age as me, early 40s. Highly professional.

I noted that she had not dyed her grey hair. I hasten to add that this had no affect on her professionalism or the way she was perceived/treated in the meeting - in fact it was irrelevant as far as the meeting went. It was just interesting to me. That she had not gone the route many, many women do when they start to get grey hair - by covering it up. And I was longing to talk to her about it, and the issues of being professional and not succumbing to the "accepted" view of women in the workplace.... And now I sound sad but I hope someone understands what I am getting at....

"My answer is that in general women don't want to do it. Either because they haven't been educated about it or because they would rather do something else, there are so many reasons. No one is oppressing them and stopping them."

You really haven't though about this from a feminist perspective at all!

No-one is stopping them, indeed. What about the other stuff? You are sounding less and less like a feminist and more like someone on the wind up.

No problem dittany. I don't actually report posts on here, but go ahead.

Porto, I'm sure this a thread diversion but am interested in why you were interested? I imagine that, were I that woman, I'd be pretty pissed off with anyone enquiring about my hair colour rather than my products or even chit-chat about how I commute, etc.

Porto, thays my opinion and many others. Sorry if it winds you up, maybe you should do something about that.

I don't need to report myself thanks, I'm sure people will be doing that for me. Doesn't change my opinion on frothy.

Eclectic - taking your 'technology' post at face value: Surely young women are influenced by social expectations in their choice of subjects? Girls don't do maths, yadda yadda. Boys don't fancy geek girls. All lies, but plenty of folk believe them.

garlic - you are totally right of course. It was a very dull meeting. But I was sat there thinking, now it is the bit of her that refuses to die her hair, the bit that makes her successful? She will be taken seriously in the (quite frankly, VERY) male dominated surroundings because....????

Maybe she is taken MORE seriously for having grey hair!

Yes, garlic, maybe they are but children learn primarily from their immediate role models, so there is an opportunity for parents to change those outdated opinions.

Maybe her hair colour had nothing to do with what people took away from hearing her speak... Maybe it was her words, novel idea, I know.

I don't know what I am trying to say even. Just that - successful woman, who doesn't do a Deborah Meadon with blonde hair and high heels thing. It made no difference at all to the presentation or the strength of their offer - tis just my idle musing....

Ecletic - I already said her hair colour made no difference.