Immediately "written off" by men who don't deem you sexually attractive.

[FermezLaBouche]

Hmm. This isn't the biggest deal in the world but I've noticed it a few times recently and it makes me really cross and upset, from a feminist POV and a female POV (hope that makes sense.)

I'm a fairly large woman but I can't say it bothers me massively. I have a good job, house, car, etc. I know I'm decent company and can hold a conversation with most people about many things.

But a couple of times recently, I've been introduced to new men - not in a date way, just socially, while out with friends. And to my irritation and, I have to say, humiliation, a couple of these men have done the quick glance up and down, decided I'm not sexually attractive, and barely extended me even basic politeness, let alone conversation.

I'm probably not expressing it right - has anyone else experienced this? Am I being over sensitive? I just find this so offensive - like I couldn't possibly have anything to offer. Maybe I'm just meeting the wrong people, but just thought I would post here to see if anyone knows what I mean...

Hmm im kinda 70/30 on this one. On one hand its downright mean and hostile of them if they are treating you rudely based on how you look. Absolutely shocking behaviour.

However if you mean that they are not taking the friendship/social relationship further because you don't think they are attracted to you then although that sounds pretty shallow, I understand it to a certain extent.

I think it very much depends on the context, socially.. hmm I think everyone judges people at first sight one way or another to a certain extent

but at work it is out of order, I remember one in particular, he thought he was HOT and wouldn't give me the time of day professionally even though I worked hard, no worse, he gave me "oh love, I'm NOT attracted to you please get over your girlish crush" vibes if I tried to talk to him about WORK, but was very very helpful to a younger, thinner friend I worked with (who was a bit useless at the job)

I do know what you mean, but I think it's the people rather than you.

I've experienced the same thing from men and women...I don't for a second believe it's about sexual attractiveness (well maybe sometimes) but more about how alike you are to them..or how alike they think you are.
I am small and blonde and I think I get this response from people because they think I'm a dizzy blonde with nothing to say....very far from the truth!
Btw I'm a bit of a lurker and never posted on this board although it's making me question a lot of things I never thought about before so be gentle if you think I'm talking nonsense!

Thanks tthh - I realise I didn't express it that well. I think part of my reason for posting that was I just feel sick of being a bit self conscious in public places. As I said in OP, I am quite big, but also have big breasts and I just sometimes feel if I'm not being ignored for being fat, I'm being leered at/piss taken out of for my chest.

Looking back on these two posts I can clearly see I'm mixing with the wrong people!!

I can't recall personally experiencing it, but I do know what you mean. No one likes to be dismissed off hand when you first meet someone regardless of the situation. It's disrespectful, and when you believe you are being dismissed because you are a woman, then it is very much a feminist issue.

For starters, if someone behaves like this, at least you know from the outset that they are boorish, rude and not worth spending a minute of your precious time with. However, it doesn't stop it feeling hurtful.

In our society, we're all conditioned to believe that a woman's appearance is more important than a man's appearance, and more important than her personality, talents, achievements, etc. As women, it's hard to avoid that message and it becomes internalised, even when we logically and politically (as feminists) recognise it as crap, that doesn't stop it hurting. Men who absorb these messages see themselves as superior to women and view women as lesser humans, who only have "value" where they are useful to men. Ergo, if they don't think a woman is attractive/shaggable/deferential enough/or of any other benefit to them, they feel entitled to dismiss them, disregard them. That's what it sounds like is happening in the situations you describe.

I don't think you are being over sensitive and I do think it is offensive. Personally speaking only, the older I get, the more intolerant I am of bigotry, sexist or other forms of bigotry. I'm probably now more likely to call it out where someone says or does something bigoted, perhaps because I don't feel the same need to feel accepted that I might have done when I was younger and was further back on my journey through feminism. The conditioning was stronger then than now for me. But, we're all different and at times, things like this can happen and they hit a nerve. It's a nerve that can hurt personally and can remind us sharply of how pervasive misogyny is in society. If we can somehow turn that into action, then it can be a spur - a positive force (but still smarts.)

Thanks for these subsequent posts! Monkeymoma - what an idiot that man sounds. He sounds like painful company!
Shazbean, I don't post here either but thought I would raise my head! You;re not talking nonsense at all, and I agree with the alikeness thing - in fact, I've probably similarly written off women in a similar way because I've immediately decided she's too "girly" or too X,Y or Z. You're right about the board making you question things!

Just hate feeling like a legitimate ridicule figure sometimes :(

I have experienced this from both men and women (being dismissed)whereby they see me as an overweight person and assume I am lazy or lack self control when it comes to food and exercise, and they make a snap judgement about me, this annoys the hell out of me tbh

It's their problem, they are just shallow and rude. They are doing you a favour in a way, because you wouldn't want any sort of relationship, such as a friendship, with a man like that. The most positive way to look at it is that at least they are showing their true colours straight away!

KRITIQ thank you for this post. There is a lot for me to think about there and I am new to this way of thinking. Conditioning is something of real interest to me - I have some deeply ingrained ways in my that I am now questioning - putting men's needs first in a thousand different ways, mostly. And for most of my adult years I've ust accepted that part of being me is just accepting the stupid fat comments, the "tits" comments, etc. And I want to stand up for myself!

Absolutely agree with the idea that women must have some kind of "use." It's vile and depressing.

I think there is truth in what the Op says. I believe many men DO 'dismiss' women as people unworthy of even the most casual friendly interaction if they do not find them sexually attractive. I see it all the time - at work, in social situations, wherever. It's particularly annoying at work - where I used to work there was a senior member of staff who blatantly used to behave differently towards the women he perceived as attractive compared to those he did not. Really galling when it should just be about getting on with the job in a professional way.
In social situations I see it often, but would just dismiss the bloke as a twat and waste no sleep over it.

I agree that women do it too, a lot! I think its more to do with clothes than size with women, and women who "don't do fashion" are JUST as guilty of it as fashionistas! the ones that are very proud of how not into clothes they are I find sometimes write me off instantly as a silly little girly girl that's not their type if I'm dressed up in frillies (when actually I'm a massive geek aswell)

Phew!

And yes, I suppose you don't waste your time with those sorts of people from the beginning.
A bit more difficult when it's work related but as I get older I find I'm not so intimidated by this sort thing and just get on and do my thing. It used to really bother me which is why I posted!

I think this isn't limited to just men, so not just a sexual attraction issue. I feel like I've been side-lined sometimes in a group of women when meeting them for the first time, especially the yummy mummy kind. It's almost like if they don't think you are in their league in terms of attractiveness you don't even warrant a civil response.

With the men it always seems to be the ones who you would be the least likely to fancy anyway who want to make it abundantly clear they're just not interested in you.

FermezLaBouche you sound fab - don't let the b.....ds get you down,

but it is easy, it helps YOU too.

As you can also instantly write them off.

If someone does that to me I feel he has saved both of us time.

So you can move on and talk to fun people.

Emphatic - exactly right about the least fanciable ones with the most arrogant reactions! And this:
It's almost like if they don't think you are in their league in terms of attractiveness you don't even warrant a civil response. is exactly what I was trying to say. I just feel the undercurrent runs deeper when men do this - I don't know why I feel like that.

God yes. I think it even works this way in job interviews as well. I know this sounds like a generalisation, but i have seen it happen repeatedly,esp in customer facing roles. There is an awful lot of pressure to be conventionally attractive and groomed in every walk of life sadly.

Their actions and attitudes speak volumes about them and nothing about you.

Take this knowledge and find a way of using it to your advantage.

Im a little overweight at the mo although ive lost a stone and a half since Feb.
I went for a drink with an old friend earlier this week and her mum.
The mum was talking about her husband and said doesnt like fat women.
Lots of people on here know my situ (regarding my sexless marriage) and im hoping (without this sounding old fashioned) to take a lover once ive dropped the weight.
And its throwaway flippant comments like the one ive described above that make me feel that
a. that i need to drop the weight first.
b. probably too frightened and paranoid to ever undress in front of anyone ever again anyway.

In fact in a study by the University of the West of England they found that 46% of women have been bullied or ridiculed because of their appearance.

I understand this and have experience of this. I am a very average, overweight 40+, single mum (not thro choice), with little confidence especially around men. I have witnessed men reacting differently to my attractive, slimmer friends, colleagues etc and it makes me want to hide away indoors sometimes. The saying "don't judge a book by it's cover" is very apt. I think men are guilty of this all the time. Conversely I always feel uncomfortable talking/dealing with 'good looking' men because of how I look and what they may think of me :(

OP I know exactly where you're coming from. I lost some 40lb a few years ago and suddenly stopped being invisible to the other sex - previously I had been 'written off' and not deemed worthy of interaction by most males I met (not my lovely DP I must say, he met me when I was at my biggest and gaining and loves me just as much now).

I've always felt a little irked since my personality hasn't changed and whether or not an individual would enjoy my company hasn't either.

Friendlymum i feel EXACTLY the same as you. In the past ive been shouted at and abused in the street. It is completely unacceptable and its often womens magazines which get the blame. Well its the stuff in mens magazines which is just as bad e.g. FHM"s High Street Honeys. And a lot of them have spent too long watching instant porn on super fast broadband in the past ten years and they expect us all to look like the female stars in those films.

i think the answer is to stop looking at them, looking at you, iyswim?

i've had both the dismissive thing from women and from men for different reasons lately. i've also had the leering thing a bit too, not sure why.

in terms of mums in the playground, i'm trying to get out of the habit of looking out for other's reactions and just focus on who I am and what i'm doing at that moment.