Immediately "written off" by men who don't deem you sexually attractive.

[FermezLaBouche]

Hmm. This isn't the biggest deal in the world but I've noticed it a few times recently and it makes me really cross and upset, from a feminist POV and a female POV (hope that makes sense.)

I'm a fairly large woman but I can't say it bothers me massively. I have a good job, house, car, etc. I know I'm decent company and can hold a conversation with most people about many things.

But a couple of times recently, I've been introduced to new men - not in a date way, just socially, while out with friends. And to my irritation and, I have to say, humiliation, a couple of these men have done the quick glance up and down, decided I'm not sexually attractive, and barely extended me even basic politeness, let alone conversation.

I'm probably not expressing it right - has anyone else experienced this? Am I being over sensitive? I just find this so offensive - like I couldn't possibly have anything to offer. Maybe I'm just meeting the wrong people, but just thought I would post here to see if anyone knows what I mean...

OP I agree its ridiculous. However, find it bizarre from another viewpoint. When I was a teenager, I was ignored and became very shy because I was told I was ugly, and as a teen that's very formative upon your own view of yourself. When I got older, men started taking an interest because they told me I was attractive, and this switch was what I found ridiculous. But it meant I dated men who liked me for me, rather than my looks, (and by the way one man who others called facially disfigured, but who liked me for my personality and I liked him for his). So I came to a point where I realised this looks thing really was a bit fake, and it's all down to what other people find attractive and your personality / confidence. So did this realisation help? Not a bit. Some men think I'm the bees knees and try it on. Some ignore me because I'm not attractive enough. Both types are annoying. There is a third type though - the nice, normal person (man or woman) who actually does care about whats inside.

I have had the same from both men and women in the workplace as i was not in thier conformed voews of what a women should be. I didn't bother too much about getting my eyebrows done or my hair done or how I should talk.

I find that this is not on a whole male/female thing, but more on a level of society. How if you can lilft a box without worrying about breaking a nail you are in some way deemed to be a pariah, how if you dont overly care about your outward appearance in terms of depilation you are not a "proper" woman. I have been called butch, been questioned on my sexuality, been probed as per my outside life in the workplace.

I used to get very upset about this type of thing an wonder if it was a failing on my part, even though I knew deep down it wasn't. I now know that it was an insecurity of other people projecting thier fears onto me. If you are confident in your own views and how you percieve yourself, fuck the lot of them....I really couldn't give aflying fuck if people care to think anything about my personal life judged on my outward appearance anymore, I did before, but now? not so much.

I agree it's a big pile of steaming dog turd that people still think like this but I don't feel that this is an overly male preserve but society as a whole and I try as hard as I can to change this.

Ok im prob not going to explain this well and i apologise if it comes out wrongly but the guy i had an affair with wasnt what society would call a conventionally good looking bloke but we had this thing .......chemistry. The sexual attraction and the sexual chemistry between us was very strong and so was the pull towards each other like a compulsion. You dont have to have conventionally good looks to have that chemistry with someone.

You dont have to have conventionally good looks to have that chemistry with someone.

Don't think anyone is disputing that. But if there is chemistry then Im taking a guess that there is an attraction of some sort. You can still be physically attracted to someone even though they are not conventionally good looking. (Im good looking (honest ) but dp isn't model material but he somehow managed to tick my boxes because when i first clapped eyes on him there was an instant attraction) but I would find it hard to believe that there could be chemistry between two people where there wasn't some sort of physical attraction.

It works both ways. I have been told I am attractive, slim and look young (I am also v clumsy and not smooth) and my achievements are often written off because "it's easy for me cause I'm pretty!"

I never win over a client down to hard work- they must "have a soft spot for me"

Women don't think I get on with men because we share interests- they must fancy me!

Not the case- I assure you.

I've had that happen with both men and women.

I feel very insecure about my weight and I think this comes across in my body language and the general 'vibe' I give out (cringey word but I can't think of another!) Maybe it's not my weight that repels people...

I'm not saying that this is case for you Titty, just thinking out loud really.

sorry titty its hard to explain it properly on here but after the initial attraction of lust the compulsion to "just have each other now" ran very deep. but i agree yes.

I am no longer overweight, and echo a previous poster who found she suddenly became "visible."

I absolutely fucking hate it. Not enough to get fat again, but enough to mean I never wear figure hugging or revealing clothing, won't wear makeup or have pretty hair etc. I will not be trivialised for my gender, thanks all the same.

Basically, with some men, if they don't find you attractive, they don't take you seriously because they aren't paying attention. If they do, they don't take you seriously because they are looking at your tits.

Oh, and if you stonewall flirting, which I do (I have to, I am often the only woman in a large group of people, and there is always drink flowing) then you are stuck up or frigid. But if you do flirt/ accept unwanted sexual attention, you aren't taken seriously because you're just there for decoration.

I'm pretty happy with my reputation as a scary feminist, although I hear a lot of sexist language punctuated with "Sorry, Crunchy..." and I want to ask, can you people not extrapolate? If it's not OK to do/ say to me, a concept you've grasped, then it's not OK to do it to ANY WOMAN!

I came across the blog of a guy about my age documenting his weight loss journey. He'd been blogging for a few years and I read his posts from the beginning over about a week.

It really challenged my reaction to men, because at first I found him someone I felt was really approachable, someone like me, who struggled with food and exercise. A week later, I was reading about the same person (who still struggled) but looked a lot more like the 'popular' guys that I found intimidating at school.

The thing was, he was actually quite cute and funny the whole way through, but by the time I'd caught up with where he was in the present, he seemed a lot more intimidating because he looked more conventionally attractive, and I felt that he totally wouldn't be interested in my comments about how inspired I was by his journey.

I got over it, realising that he was still the same guy, and emailed him anyway, and got a really nice email back.

It made me wonder whether those 'popular' guys at school did really see me as unworthy and rejected me, or whether I saw myself as that and never really put myself forward to find out whether they were really nice guys that I could have had friendships or relationships with.

I mean it doesn't matter now in terms of relationships (rather happy with the one I have thanks) but I wonder if I'm missing out on potential friendships or even job opportunities because I've assumed that conventionally good looking men (and women) wouldn't want to know me because I'm larger and plain.

Its also made me think about how people may have percieved me at different sizes.

I suppose what I'm wondering, is how much of my isolation from the 'beautiful people' is because they are really shallow and unsensitive, and how much is because I assume they will be?

I did get some negative comments about my size and weight during my teenage years. But I'm now uncertain how many people I avoided starting conversations with because I thought they might be horrible to me, when they could have been really nice.

I saw the larger version of the blogger guy as someone friendly. I was right, he is. But he was still the same when he lost weight.

What if I've been avoiding nice people all these years just because they fitted the cultural expectations of attractiveness?

.

OP, I know exactly what you are talking about, having gone from a slim young thing who got chatted up to the point of boredom, to an overweight mummy with an acne problem. I've been chatted up three times since my dd was born, she is now six. I do prefer it this way but do hate the dismissal on any level that comes with it though.

Thanks to everyone who has posted their experiences on this thread. It seems we (in general) accept this happens, but there seem to so many variations on it.

BuggyRunner I see why that would be frustrating for you - another way to dismiss your hard work, how ridiculous.

fridakahlo I sympathise entirely. During my late teens I was a size 14-16 and lookng back at pictures of myself I looked brilliant and in proprotion! Was put down by many relatives and made to feel like a fat lump. Now I actually am a fat lump I realise how damaging those comments were.

I am currently in the shitty process of applying and interviewing for jobs, and I've reached the point where I genuinely doubt my skills and accomplishments and assume they won't want to know. Perhaps that's a self-esteem issue as opposed to a Femisist issue, but I doubt many male candidates have these doubts over themselves. AGH, why the HELL do we do it?!

i remember at school the girls in the 'popular gang' just wouldnt give me time of day, i wasnt worth their time. and it diddnt even feel that unfair at the time, just the way things were.

this does happen to men but men are judged on their appearence less than women, generaly speaking. so i would imagine this affects women more of the time.

but, anyone see the experiment where 10 wedding photos were cut in half ?
the halfs with men on were given to some women and the halfs with women on were given to men, they were then sorted from 1-10 in order of attractiveness.
all the couples matched up, in order to their spouses.
my point here is that some posters here are trying to make out that beauty is only superficial and skin deep, and they themselves are above the flesh, well i just dont buy that.

ask yourselves this , when you meet a member of the oposite sex do you, within, seconds make a discision , maybe subconsceiously...this person is potentialy sexual or non sexual?

Have not read whole thread.

OP in the situation you describe it made me think of people (men and women) who really prefer the company of their own sex/gender and so are actually simply not really interested in talking to people of the opposite sex unless they are nice to look at. I really think that goes both ways.

The other thing I thought was that the other side to your post is that if you are attractive it can cause the opposite problem in terms of men you don't want to talk to not leaving you alone. (Although obviously all women can be pestered). And that if you are eg blonde people can assume that you are a bit thick and that some men at work can do mild flirting and expect you to flirt back and get miffed when you don't.

So the bottom line I think is that there are a lot of men out there who a. are ntot interested in women apart from if they are traditionally attractive and b. are quite open about how they treat women based on their judgement of their looks.

"Ask yourself if you would talk socially to a small, underweight bloke with poor dress sense or an overweight, bearded bloke? How do you think they feel? "

This is silly though. Plenty of people are happy to talk to people who are interesting, irrespective of what they look like. Being friends with someone is not the same as shagging them. If I only spoke to people I wanted to shag I wouldn't have any female friends, for a start (being heterosexual).

Your post assumes that men and women only talk to each other if they are interested in them sexually, otherwise preferring the company of their own sex/gender. This is true of some people but not all, not by a long chalk.

Sorry "silly" was a bit harsh it was just my initial reaction and I didn't read it back before I posted!

I need to come back and read this when I'm less tired - so many replies are looking plain weird to me at the moment

Of course this happens. It started happening to me when I got to age 50 and becomes more pronounced with each passing year.

I agree with PP that you need to "stop looking at them looking at you" which, for all I know, may have been easier for me having spent the past 35 years battling the problems associated with being considered 'attractive'.

The obvious point, it seems to me, is that if people can't "see" or "hear" you - and you need them to - you develop more assertive methods of gaining attention than simply standing there hoping they'll notice.

I've undoubtedly misread the intention of preceding posts, and/or the thread may have diverted into conversation about attractiveness norms. Will revisit when thread longer tomorrow.