New Trans thread as requested by HQs.

[oilfilledlamp]

Please forgive the intrusion but I've been out tonight and only recently got back. I wanted to respond to MadWomanintheattic earlier when she posted

"If I were an mtf trans (pre op or post op) the last place I'd want to fetch up is in a women's refuge, because of the potential for making other people feel ill at ease. But nothing is clear cut, really.

How often does this happen, really? Has there been any research into prevalence and motivation?

I would say wherever there is a loo free.

I sometimes go into the men's loos, but only if I KNOW it is not one with urinals, but ordinary cubicles with locks.

I don't get this loo anxiety TBH.

I was at a lesbo fest in the summer and there were plenty of women walking round who looked more male than most men I know, especially with their very large fake packages. They would be very triggering?

That's what I mean Hully.

Hath:

What the heck does looking masculine even mean?

OFL - exactly my point.

And the point was forcibly made on the other thread that it didn't matter what they looked like or whether they were pre- or post-op they were male and had no right to be in the female changing areas. Even in cubicles.

Great post SGM and one I agree with totally.

Ok, has anyone ever ever been in a changing room with a pre op mtf? Or know anyone that has (not heard about it or read some horror story) real actual verifiable actual?

And I agree with SGM - proper bathrooms with proper doors for everyone and that solves the problem.

I don't get why we have gendered loos anyway. Honestly. I've never met a man who said 'oh, no, this loo has no urinal, how will I cope!' or anyone who has ever installed a urinal into their home. Surely we could all cope with six shared loos rather than three for women and three for men?

I am sure the men would survive the chilling experience of peeing next to a tampon bin, too.

and yy re loos etc

And I agree with LRD

As a side issue, I used to frequent a gay bar many years ago where the three women used the men's, because there was always a giant queue for the ladies that the boys insisted on using (not trans either)

hey ho

Our local pool has a massive unisex changing room with lockable cubicles so I have no idea what people have going on under their cozzies. I'm far too worried about trying to keep my pubes under control to worry about anyone else

I have to say ... this thing about unisex loos is the sort of 'issue' that could have been solved by accepting that gender is a stupid non-category years ago.

I take DD swimming to the local pool. It has male and female changing areas.

The utter faff that some poor woman had to go through to get her big teenaged son with learning difficulties changed was ridiculous.

She had to :

Get out of the pool.

Get him out of the pool.

Both in cozzies dripping wet.

Walk all the way through the female changing (where the only ones getting changed).

All the way out to the desk.

Get the receptionist to call an attendant.

Walk back to changing room.

Wait for attendant.

Who then got the key for the disabled changing room.

Walk all the way back through the female changing and round the corner to the disabled changing.

That's an issue.

"Ok, has anyone ever ever been in a changing room with a pre op mtf?"

I attended a festival/conference type thing where communal sleeping space was provided - separate for men and women. There was a pre op MtoF who was sleeping in the communal women's space. Lots of women felt very very unhappy about it, but didn't feel they could say anything as any concerns raised were labelled as transphobia.

By communal sleeping space I mean sleeping bags on camp beds - there was no privacy at all. The next year the skleeping accommodation was all provided in locked individual bedrooms, without any communal sleeping space making it too expensive for some people to go to.

OMG I lost "where the only ones getting changed were me and DD and it wouldn't have bothered me and I would have made DD just deal with it"

Elephants - why were the women unhappy?

Because they had chosen to sleep in a communal space for women only. The MtoF Trans had a male body and a penis. You may not care about this, but many many women would.

elephants - did s/he dress/undress in front of them?

Why? Did they feel threatened? Why was the MtoF transgendered person any more likely to threaten them that a woman who was a lesbian?

I can see how it would feel a bit odd. I don't know the answer, if one goes back to strictly segregated sleeping areas, doesn't that risk reinforcing the gender binary again?