Which CBeebies White Men Would You Sack To Make Room For Diversity?

[FoodUnit]

I'm fed up with the surplus white able-bodied men in children's programmes - especially those who really aren't all that. I mean Justin Fletcher and Chris from Show Me Show Me seem to have got in on talent - but Andy from Andy's Wild Adventures - what's the deal with him? Same for Mr Bloom and Alex. It would be really easy to replace these white men with more diverse presenters.

The same goes for cartoons like Mike the Knight- why don't they, just at the commissioning stage, have a process where they ask: Does this character actually NEED to be an able-bodied white male? If not, they could change them to somebody other than an ABWM. Wouldn't that be great?

So I'm just interested in knowing who else you think could be binned without any great loss in the name of diversity?

That's two people who have run away after talking to me. Was it something I said?

Will you have a fish biscuit? You will you will you will

'are you suggesting that Captain Barnacles got the part because he was the best out of a wide field of cartoon marine animals of all genders and levels of physical ability? Because I think it was fixed.'

This made me immensely happy.

FWIW, about voice actors - Bart Simpson's voice actor is a woman, isn't she?

my DS loves lola from charlie and lola, and his fave character from octonauts is dashi. he also likes minnie mouse a lot and when choosing figures for his castle has included a queen, a princess with a sword, a troubadour(sp?) and a unicorn. he also has a puppy that goes everywhere with him that's a girl.

i think most of the "boys only want to watch boys" is actually adults who force boys into that view by automatically putting down girly stuff. i have found myself as a parent offering boy-ish stuff to my DD and girl-ish stuff to my DS to try and counteract the overwhelming desire from other people for them to conform...

they must be feeling awkward about being complicit in your oppression Tunip

thanks for the fish biscuit

Well the girls aren't the only ones who are shown as useless, have you seen Postman Pat Special Delivery Service? Every job he has is fooked up!

Yeah, and he still keeps getting his own flipping show!

Oh dear. I see we have some way to go with you, Tunip.

My 3yr old is shit scared of Andy!

I seem to remember reading (may have been in a webchat here, actually) that they deliberately had more men on Cbeebies because a lot of their core audience had fathers who had either (a) fecked off completely or (b) worked long hours and didn't see that much of their children, so they were consciously trying to provide role models of men actively engaged with children to redress that balance. That was around the time they got rid of Sue and Nicole and brought in Andy.

I have introduced DS to the concept of the Bechdel Test and do occasionallg bring it up in relation to children's programming (Tree Fu Tom, I am looking at you).

I've thought it would be great to have a score leader board for diversity in children's programmes (more complex than bechdel test) to see what comes out as the winner. eg:

Is the central character a white able-bodied male? [Yes: minus 10 points]
Is there more than one female character? [Yes: plus 2 points]
Does the female character have a named vocation? [Yes: plus 5 points]
Is the female character's vocation in caring/clerical/catering/cleaning? [Yes: minus 2 points]
etc.....

The Octonauts could have done with one of the main 3 characters being female. But the 2 that are women are ok. Dashi is a photographer and computer expert and Tweak is an engineer (and built the gups). Shellington ( a male character) is a shit driver so at least they dodged that one :) I really like it that Tunip is genderless.

The 3 main characters do most of the missions (i should get out more).

I really hate 'grandpa in my pocket' all the female characters are shite. Don't get me started on Bubbles.

I have to say I am glad to discover I am nt the only absolutely horrified by Zingzillas, although I must admit I noticed the gender stereotyping late, it took me months to get over the fact that someone had thought it appropriate to have a seemingly Carribean island inhabited by monkeys dressed as people. I thought that kind of stuff went the way of the Typhoo monkeys (or was PG Tips, can't remember).
Octonauts annoys in the same way that a number of US programmes we get over here: there are female characters, but they never get to the actual adventuring. They are always the ones manning the computers, staying back at base etc.
My DS loves Dora the Explorer, as do I. He is also taken with Go Diego Go, but I find that programme also falls back on the "women as suppport back at base" crap. I also agree that boys won't watch girls is gender "education" in action and needs to be knocked on the head along with the stupid necessity to identify girls by colour or giving thel longer eyelashes ( I mean wtaf? My DS has humoungus eyelashes that are the source Of comment wherever we go . my DD has short ones..... Where is the justification for longer eyelashes equally girls? If it's bloody make- up I shall scream and scream until I am sick, just like Violet Elizabeth Bott, yet another crappy female fictional model).

What's not to be horrified about?

Of the main monkeys, the two boy ones present themselves as older and more mature and more in charge than the two girl ones. The female characters are either mute (Drum), say very little (the other one whose name I can't recall), or speak in one voice and only then to support what others have said (the Beach Birds). There are no other female characters. All the authority figures- Todd and that pot-head lemur dude, along with the stone heads etc are all male.

Ahhh, it is only slowly dawning on me that we are now pretty much FREE of Cbeebies now that DS is 7. But can I just join in with the Zingzillas-hating for a bit? What a total crock of fucking shit that programme is. And why did it replace Space Pirates, which was the previous introduce-kids-to-various-music programme? Space Pirates was a million times better - while the nominal host was a white male, he was constantly outwitted by his sidekicks Honk and Tonk, of which one (I can't remember which was called what) was a girl; she was the older, smarter one and she looked a glorious mess, generally grubby and wearing big boots and a coal scuttle on her head. The leader of the cartoon-animal band was female, too.
I can't help wondering if they dumped this and put on Zingzillas instead because they were frightened of not having enough programmes ramming home the idea that girls are smaller, dimmer and wear lots of pink. Though I suppose Captain DJ could have been busted for smoking dope or something.

Mmm, you see (and I am aware that I am probably overthinking this) given that Dora and Diego come from the same people I am uncomfortably aware that Diego (the "boys'" show) teaches facts (albeit basic) about animals and nature (I think my entire knowledge of the whale shark cones from Diego) while Dora (the "girls'" show) focuses more on stories and the importance of being nice to everybody. Also Dora is getting increasingly princessified in the specials, which is a little reactionary.

I totally agree about the eyelash thing; I was ranting to myself about it while Numberjacks was on just this morning.

Big cook, little cook used to drive me crazy.. Cringeworthy to the highest level.
I defo get what you mean about postman pat, surely he should have been sacked by now he cocks up every job haha

more on Zingzillas: Tang is the only serious musician, and through him you learn how to stay focused on practicing to improve and coping with nerves and stagefright. Zack teaches lessons of diplomatic leadership as his egoistic vices are called to account. Pansy and Drum just p*ss around as though they just fall into it and their playing is intinctual and doesn't require development. Also, if ever there are dancers, its likely Pansy and Drum care so little about their musicianship they'll drop their instruments and join in with that.

I remember seeing an awful episode where Pansy wanted to sing lead and fluttered her eyelashes at Zak, practically begging him to let her sing lead. And I don't think she did in the end [angry}

"I remember seeing an awful episode where Pansy wanted to sing lead and fluttered her eyelashes at Zak, practically begging him to let her sing lead. And I don't think she did in the end [angry}"

[cue Harry Hill music]
Patriarchy in a [pause] nutshell!...

sgb we loved space pirates too. The girl was like marmalade Atkins. Whatever happened to marmalade Atkins?

That was the episode that catapulted me into trying to find someone, anyone, to complain to about the damned programme, before discovering that the only way you can complain about cbeebies programmes is through a management company that only allows 140 character comments. Classic. Did not pursue the matter aggressively enough at the time and the sodding programme is still going. Impossible to find Kay Cargill's email address anywhere online. Does anybody know it? I asked on my original thread but there were no leads.

I was just so aghast that anybody would script such a crass storyline in the 21st century. Just absolutely unfeckingbeleivable.

Out of interest what do you lot do? I wonder how many honest replies there will be?