New left project: Is porn hijacking our sexuality?

[WidowWadman]

3 part debate between Sarah Ditum and Gail Dines on the topic, very interesting reading.

Must say that I tend to agree more with Ditum than with Dines. And also found Petra Boyton's quote very interesting:

?The evidence base on the effects of pornography is not particularly clear, given that many studies are limited by small samples; riddled with experimenter expectancy effects and demand characteristics; poorly designed and poorly reported lab-based research that often features male undergraduates who?re not representative of the wider population.?

Boynton continues: ?It?s not to say all porn research is bad, but because the majority of studies are so flawed it?s very difficult to draw any clear conclusions from them ? particularly around direct causal links between images and actions. Unfortunately this confusion leads to both pro and anti pornography groups cherry-picking particular studies to suit their respective agendas.?

It supports my view that, whilst porn admittedly is very problematic, the world isn't simply black and white, and neither the pro nor the anti porn argument is without flaws.

You do know that there is and has been for over 20 years lesbian porn that's made by lesbians for lesbians, don't you? (and that straight women often like to look at gay male porn, too...)

Yes, of course I know. I don't think that the existence of such practices washes away the validity of the questions I've mentioned in my post.

Why do women consume gay male pornography? Is it because it is free and clear of the misogyny and violence found in mainstream het porn? Or is it because two men together is hot, and female viewers are no more inclined to face the problematic circumstances of porn production?

Dunno, frankly. I think probably the latter, but I can see how the former could be argued.

Same goes for women watching women. Same-sex relationships aren't magic - patriarchy is bigger than individuals. It's hardly a criticism to observe that individual relationships and identities can't exist outside the tidal wave of influences that make up the world in which we live.

It's hardly mindblowing to argue that gay and lesbian sexuality is potentially as hijacked as heterosexuality is when we look at popular consumption of pornography.

Can people subvert this? I personally suspect not.

I consume pornography. but it does concern me that some abuse takes place in that industry, i would rather be sure that the images i look at are in no way exploitative.
SGB's fair trade idea would be good
men will continue find women attractive and aroused by their undressing, and there are enough exhibishinist people out there who will enjoy being paid for it.
men and women will continue to enjoy watching other men and women having sex, in a voyeuristic way. better to regulate that to try to outlaw it, were all adults , people who can have sex should be able to watch others having sex without this harming anyone.

i have the distinct feeling that most links here will be cherry-picked to suit the agendas of the posters .

Petra Boynton doesn't offer any stats herself, despite being a scientist. And it's all very well rubbishing other's approaches but giving nothing to back it up in return, except, weirdly, her own anecdotal experiences. Based totally on her Doctorate.

Anyway, it's so obvious that porn is hijacking our sexuality. You only have to check out the relationships section. Porn is increasingly violent, feminist porn barely exists and is not hit upon, lesbian porn is a niche serving men mostly. Gay sex is a niche that is becoming increasingly marginalised. Mostly porn is about double penetration, double anal, multiple facials, and the obvious hurting of females.

If this doesn't hijack sexuality, I don't know what does.

But men don't find women above 30 attractive on a porn site. All those above 30 are seen as mothers I'd like to fuck. Anyone woman above 40 is defunct.

Within porn that is. Not in real life.

Every lesbian knows that lesbian pornography serves to fulfil male fantasies. It also serves to fulfil heterosexual females fantasies too. It most certainly doesn't fulfil lesbians.

"Mostly porn is about double penetration, double anal, multiple facials, and the obvious hurting of females."

Is that true? Is that really the porn that sells most and is consumed by most people? Where's the stats on commercial success of porn by genre? And who;s compiled those stats, if they indeed exist?

The porn industry compile lists, just like in anything else, music, films etc. Have a look at those. The porn industry really aren't coy is recognising what their material is. They write descriptions that are quite clear about this.

Just did a google search WidowWadman using the following terms:

Double anal: 15,700,000
Double penetration: 73,000,000
Facial 78,800,000
Feminist sex 38,300,000
Teen porn 205,000,000
MILTF 2,400,000
Elder sex 70,400,000

Most of the charts relating to what sells best in porn are compiled by the various producers, who are mostly interested in claiming that their products outsell those made by their rivals. The closest thing to an independent assessment (of success and artistic merit, not specifically workers' rights) would be the ETO awards, which tend to be given to stuff that's noteworthy for lavishness, humour, interesting twists, appearance of particular stars, etc.
I've watched a lot of porn DVDs over the past 5 years and I have seen a variety of stuff, very very little of which featured 'the obvious hurting of females' as its main selling point. Most of what I watched showed people having fun and sometimes women having what looked like genuine orgasms. Some of the performers looked a bit bored sometimes, and some of the dialogue was unpleasant (and in all my reviewing I always made the case for stuff that looked like fun and sent the message that this is all about fun not hurting people in a non-consensual way), but most of it was just about all-round enjoyment.

cracked

"Double anal: 15,700,000
Double penetration: 73,000,000
Facial 78,800,000
Feminist sex 38,300,000
Teen porn 205,000,000
MILTF 2,400,000
Elder sex 70,400,000"

Your search is pretty pointless, as none of the words double, anal, penetration are exclusive to porn. I'm not surprised that google searches containing the word "double" turn up the most results, as they may include anything from double knit over double cream to yes, penetration.

A simple search for porn gets 1,880,000,000 results. So even if your flawed search was taken as all results relating to points, that would mean that only 0.08% of searches for porn were related to double anal

rageagainstthemanchine.com/2012/03/15/porn-part-11-the-difference-between-huffing-dong-and-flipping-burgers/

Hi SGB and Widow. Thank you for responding. But I feel that's all you do. Respond. Please show me figures that suggest that porn is wonderful, helpful to sexuality and all empowering. I'd like to see those figures. What did you make of elder sex, as opposed to MILTF? I was quite taken aback about that.

Take a look at the video on this post. I tried to put a link direct to youtube but you need to sign in before you do it.

Love hurts. As someone a man, once sang.

@ Widow, seeing how you started this thread and all.

Facial 78,800,000
Feminist sex 38,300,000
Teen porn 205,000,000
MILTF 2,400,000
Elder sex 70,400,000"

You excluded this from your scientific paltry look at the google search I'd done.

Teen porn is pretty specific don't you think? Why did you exclude this? Facial I put in there because that's exactly a word that includes have your facial at this beauty salon. I didn't go for bukkake on that search deliberately. Big fail at the science . You bring to this thread your own preconceptions with nothing to back them up. Just to deliberately wind people up.

Huge fail.

I disagree totaly , but, i cannot speak for all men but i find double penitration, bukake etc not attall sexy i can honestly say it does nothing for me ,probobly like most men i find i click on the same couple of catagories of porn , for me it;s 'milfs' and 'hairy' ( hairy , like i have the fetish! it should be called 'normal') but the poster that said women over 30 are not prevelent and over 40 are defunct is totaly wrong, i think she would be very suprised.

as for califonia made porn by professionals with pneumatic silicone breasts, i can honestly say i would rather watch grass grow. i think that pornographers have no clue as to what constitutes erotica.

BDSM, well you either get it or you dont, it isnt for everyone, but let me say this, the submissive has the kink, tourture , you would assume is detrimental to the individual being tourturd, except within BDSM where the sub activily wants the pain or humiliation or whatever, you should not assume too many things about some of the violent types of porn out there , safe sane and consentual is there rule ( SSC )

What makes you think people are in the least bit interested in hearing about your porn habits? How on earth do you think that is appropriate?

i thought it was relevent to the debate ...is it inappropriate?

SGB said: "I've watched a lot of porn DVDs over the past 5 years and I have seen a variety of stuff, very very little of which featured 'the obvious hurting of females' as its main selling point. Most of what I watched showed people having fun and sometimes women having what looked like genuine orgasms. Some of the performers looked a bit bored sometimes, and some of the dialogue was unpleasant (and in all my reviewing I always made the case for stuff that looked like fun and sent the message that this is all about fun not hurting people in a non-consensual way), but most of it was just about all-round enjoyment."

Why don't you post links to this porn that brings you so much 'enjoyment'?

Well at the moment (fecking dongle content lock) I can't post links to adult websites. I can advise you to look up the work of Anna Span and Petra Joy, if you want.

Just looked at a trailer for one of Anna Span's films and there was a woman sucking another woman's strap-on.

Which woman is getting the pleasure here, and why?

^ Was to SGB