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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Religion is sexist!

100 replies

startail · 31/03/2012 21:34

DD2, 11 has decided religion is sexist. I don't think any of you will disagree, but thoughts please.

OP posts:
CailinDana · 03/04/2012 16:32

They sound like two very scary experiences. How did you feel about your parents' reactions? I only ask because for me the way my mother reacted to what happened to me was by far the worst aspect of my abuse.

carernotasaint · 03/04/2012 16:42

my mum still doesnt know what my cousin did. And it has taught me not to look to her for support. I dont trust her to support me cos i know she wouldnt.In her world it is always ALWAYS the females fault. i do not plan to go back to Italy. i have relations over there but i dont really know them and not having a passport is a surefire way of making sure that never happens.
But i wasnt abused in a very serious way. Thats why i feel such a fraud about it because much worse has happened to others Cailin including you and 2 of my old schoolfriends. I dont trust my mum. i love her cos shes my mum but i dont trust her and i feel let down and angry.

CailinDana · 03/04/2012 16:47

Why do you think she always blames the female carer?

carernotasaint · 03/04/2012 17:05

I think its partly to do with the Catholic religion and partly to do with the way Italy is. Its mysogynistic and looks obsessed. A female is expected to look slim above all else and pretty. This is expected of them amd yet they are blamed if they are abused or attacked. Burlesconi is actually a pretty good example of this. He called Angela Mergel unshaggable because in his eyes she doesnt measure up to the ideal and having a brain is not important. when i was younger i got moaned at for reading books on a sunday afternoon rather than watching the Clothes Show which i found piss boring at the time.
Dont get me wrong i like to look nice like any woman but i refuse to obsess about it 24/7. That way i think madness lies.

chipmonkey · 03/04/2012 17:44

carer, both of those situations were dreadful and your parents' responses far from adequate to say the least. If your parents won't protect you, who will? I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

carernotasaint · 03/04/2012 21:19

Thanks chip.

chipmonkey · 04/04/2012 12:50

Cailin, you had me thinking about this!

My aunt came to see me yesterday. My baby daughter died in October. She lost two of her children in the eighties My grandmother ( her mother) lost two children in the 1930's.

My aunt and I were both encouraged to talk about our deceased children. My grandmother, on the other hand, buried her children and never spoke of them again. Yet, surely her pain was as great as ours. But in those times you were expected to bury the pain and get on with it.

I'm not sure if it's an Irish thing or a catholic thing but I feel that my own mother is a bit like that and I think that if I had been abused as a child that she might very well have tried to bury it and pretend it never happened. When my dd died, she was great for giving practical support, like looking after my boys, taking them to school, making them dinners, but never really asked me how I was feeling or never really talked much about dd. SIL on the other hand, who is my age, has listened to me blubber on for hours!

I think some of it is probably due to Catholicism and the "offer it up" mentality but I do think a good deal of it is due to an attitude stemming from being a poverty-stricken, post-famine country.

CailinDana · 04/04/2012 13:02

Sorry to hear about your DD, chip, what age was she?

I think in Irish culture response to hardship is very scripted and prescribed. For example, with death, everyone participates in a huge funeral and wake and for an "expected" death such as that of an old person, funerals are great, healing, joyous occasions because they fit the Catholic script, they're not too challenging and everyone knows how to deal with it. There's no need to talk about it, because everyone knows what to do. Talking is embarrassing and awkward and no one wants to do it.

When it comes to more "unusual" events like divorce (still unusual in Ireland), the death of a child or abuse, it's like people, particularly of the older generation, are at a complete loss. They just do the practical stuff, the well-worn scripted stuff and then can't go any further. People of my parents' generation and older have very little emotional understanding and intelligence - as you say they'd rather bury it and get on with things. They just don't have the vocabulary to talk about difficult feelings. Perhaps that does come from poverty and famine, where if you stopped for a moment to think about the hardship you were going through you would just crumble and die. I do think that Irish people have great ability to storm onwards in the face of mountains of adversity. My gran had what she considers a happy life despite not having two red pennies to rub together, an alcoholic husband, a tiny house and nine children. She became a widow in the late 70's and despite never having had a job, went out, got work and soldiered on. People may admire her, but she raised people who can't reach out to their own children, people like my mother. Is that a failure on her part, or just a fact of life when you live in such conditions?

JugglingWithTangentialOranges · 04/04/2012 13:20

I think emotional awareness and intelligence is just developing with each generation. I think living through war as well as poverty made it difficult for earlier generations to give it much attention, and in their developmental years as children their own feelings were often given short shrift by the generation before them. Times are changing for the better in this regard I feel.

I'm so sorry for your loss chip Sad

I thought the blanket MNers made was beautiful x Is it with you yet ?

carernotasaint · 04/04/2012 13:23

Chip im so sorry to hear about your daughter xx

chipmonkey · 04/04/2012 13:41

She was 7 weeks old. She was born at 28 weeks but had done very well in hospital and we had her home for four days. Then she just died of SIDS. Prem babies are prone to it.Sad

Juggling the lovely Pistey is coming to deliver it to me on Friday. I am so looking forward to seeing her and the beautiful blanket!

CailinDana · 04/04/2012 13:43

That is so sad chip :( How are you doing at the moment?

chipmonkey · 04/04/2012 14:22

In true Irish fashion I am inclined to answer "I'm fine!" But not really. I have my lads and I have to get up every morning to take care of them. And the ladies on the Bereavement thread here are just wonderful. I have good bereavement support from Temple St where they tried to save her but couldn't. But the ladies here keep me going on a day-to-day basis.

CailinDana · 04/04/2012 14:28

I'm glad you're getting support, it must be so hard. I saw the photo of your little DD on your profile, what a cutie! What was her name (if you don't mind mentioning it here)?

chipmonkey · 04/04/2012 17:01

Her name was Sylvie-Rose. After four boys I went very girly!

CailinDana · 04/04/2012 17:05

Aw that is a gorgeous name :)

KalSkirata · 04/04/2012 17:22

sorry to read about your loss chipmonkey

I think organised religion just reflects a sexist society. They are intertwined.

ChildofIsis · 04/04/2012 17:28

The OP should say that monotheistic religion is sexist.

Pagan religions that celebrate Goddessess and Gods are not necessarily sexist.
The followers have a choice to follow a female deity and female clergy if they choose.

KalSkirata · 04/04/2012 17:38

pagan followers can be equally sexist. I spent years involved in the pagan scene and encountered sexist ideals and sexist people just as much as anywhere else.

chipmonkey · 04/04/2012 20:11

Any sexist/racist person can usually twist aspects of any religion to make it suit themselves.

carernotasaint · 04/04/2012 22:32

Sylvie Rose. Oh chipmonkey thats beautiful. xxx

Starwisher · 04/04/2012 22:48

Hi chipmonkey

I just wanted to say after "meeting" you on the thread the other day you have been in my thoughts a lot xxx

miloben · 04/04/2012 23:22

*@miloben it is interesting how these things always turn into catholocism bashing threads. I have talked about them as I am catholic myself.

These attitudes are not unique to catholocism but criticism of other religions is thin on the ground.*

Ethelb, thank you v. much!!I do see why people, and women especially, are so down on the Catholic Church. I would be, too, if I were not in it. But I LOVE being part of the whole community and I was v. proud to have my daughter and son baptised into it and my husband too!!!

I also see it has a LOT to do with regards to women's rights...but the fact is, I am a Catholic because I believe in all that Jesus preached and I believe He established this Church, which makes it perfect, despite all that men have done to ruin it.

chipmonkey · 04/04/2012 23:27

Thanks, Starwisher. I do appreciate your support on that thread but I ended up hiding it in the end as certain aspects of it just upset me. I knew I shouldn't have clicked on it in the first place but it wasn't the first and won't be the last time I'll click on a thread I shouldn't have.

Starwisher · 04/04/2012 23:35

There were some awful posters on that thread who should be ashamed of themselves for their treatment towards you and your beliefs. I'm glad you hid the thread it just wasn't worth it xxx

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