Religion is sexist!

[startail]

DD2, 11 has decided religion is sexist. I don't think any of you will disagree, but thoughts please.

IMO, she's right.

Which one? Or do you mean that most, if not all, organised religions are sexist?

Very observant of her! Most major religions are inherently sexist. However, I'm not sure God intended it to be that way.

What chipmonkey said. I have a faith (Christian) but hate the churchianity which makes rules up and is very sexist

Yup, Catholicism is incredibly sexist. That's partly the reason why I don't consider myself Catholic any more. I don't want to be part of a religion that hates me for being a woman.

I think that in many cases, the traditions which were present in a community anyway have got swept up into the 'religion' bag IYSWIM.

For example: I met a Saudi Muslim man once who was having a chat about Islam. He genially mentioned that when his wife is in the UK she merely covers her hair and wears western clothes that cover her up from neck to wrists to ankles, whereas in Saudi she covers completely (face and all).

I asked him why she didn't just wear the same things in both countries, as surely in the eyes of God (according to him) one set of dress was just as modest as the other.

He looked a bit nonplussed and then admitted that in Saudi she was following local custom and not the actual word of the Koran (which specifies covering hair and wearing concealing clothes IIRC).

I think that in general, religious texts aren't quite as misogynistic as the men who originally interpreted them!!

I think a lot depends on the church you go to - there is definitely a hangover from the days of patriarchy in the Church but definitely in my own church I have met loads of enlightened people.

Also, I do think it depends on one's interpretation of the scripture and also how you define feminism. I have met some feminists who seem to be fighting for female supremacy and unsurprisingly none of them go to my Church or even have an interest in religion.

Lastly, I think if you read scripture carefully you do realise it is not one-sided.

Someone in my Church said very wisely a few weeks ago that they could imagine God looking down at us and having more than a few McInroe Moments. The point is that none of us can really know what God intended.

Sikhism is pretty good on women's rights but as a whole most religions follow a patriarchal structure.

misogynistic, racist and homophobic... that's why we shouldn't take holy scriptures to the letter.

Cailin im with you all the way on this one. My mum is Italian and so i was brought up Catholic. i havent seen the inside of a catholic church since 1992 and its bloody well gonna stay that way.
My mum is a woman blamer. She blamed ME for an affair i had when my husband hadnt touched me for 7 years and refused to do anything about it. If a female is brought up in a Catholic family she can expect ZERO support and only blame.

Sorry that reads wrong. It was meant that my dh refused to do anything about it. She still blamed me though.

If you consider sexist to be treating men and women differently, then yes (except some religions like Quakers).

However, I don't think religion is much more sexist than society at large. It just choses different battles.

A church that expects men to live an entire adult life without sex or even close companionship is bound to have fucked up views of women IMO.

I disagree ethel, some of the beliefs Catholicism has about women are disgusting, far worse than society at large can come up with.

NEWSFLASH.

The catholic church also expects the same of women (nuns for instance) yet when the debate re emerges about whether this rule should be changed for the priests, nuns never get a mention.

I am not trying to defend religion @Cailin. But does celibacy cause you to be a bad person? That's quite a big statement.

My point about our society is that it is a society that makes abortion legal but in practice only accepts it if women feel shame, and express regret.

It has made rape legal but expects women to behave in a a certain way if they are raped and has a 6% conviction rate.

It criminalises selling sex but not buying it. (sex industry is dominated by women)

How is that not a disgusting view of women?

@carer that is because our v sexist society doesn't expect women to have a sexuality. Demonstrated perfectly by the point you made.

Don't even get me started on how lesbians are viewed by society.

All research into homosexuality looks at men ffs.

Nice to see Quakers get a favourable mention from ethelb as that's where I've lain my hat

• not sure we truly treat women and men equally (as people bring so much with them from our wider society) - but do try harder than most to move in that direction.

Your DD sounds very smart startail

My daughter pointed out to me at a similar age that the entrance criteria for her faith school was rather racist (as not all faiths treated equally, therefore children from different cultures didn't have equal opportunity) I couldn't argue with her. She wasn't wrong.

I would want to hear about how your dd has come to that conclusion and listen to her views. Have you asked her OP how and why she has come to that conclusion?

Just interested, I think she is correct.

@juggling well equality is a major aspect of Quaker faith no?

I thought women had a strong role in the start of the church and kept it that way! Or am I imagining things?

They started from the same book as Catholics and weirdo bible bashers too...

Celibacy doesn't cause you to be a bad person ethel, I didn't say that. I'm saying that celibacy is a ridiculous, impossible requirement of being an officer of the church and I think it's one of the main things that causes the Catholic church to be so obsessed with sex. By making it such a taboo, inaccessible thing it blows it up into something much more than it should be IYSWIM.

The Catholic church believes those same thing about rape and abortion, but then adds for good measure:
-No access to contraception, women must submit to their husbands at all times and bear as many children as come along, regardless of the health/wellbeing consequences
-Women are dirty even if they have sex to have children and must be "churched" (ie cleansed) before they can be allowed to take communion after having a baby
-Women might be allowed to do whatever jobs they like outside of the church but in the church they are not welcome to preach god's word. They are barred from being anything other than the handmaidens of the men.

And that's just a tiny portion of it.

Yes, that's all true ethelb - but actually to achieve equality between women and men and live together in a community with complete respect for each other - well, that's a tall order, and something we could only say we were working towards ...

We read other books now as well which I find helps

( Was talking about what ethel had to say about Quakers, just to be clear. )

She's gone to bed, but I'll get her to elaborate her views tomorrow. It will take us a while to read the thread.
Thanks for all your input and taking the time to answer.

Personally I think the sexist views in religious texts are the product of the societies that wrote them.
It suits men to use those views to justify their continued subjection of women.

I think it's moral cowardice to hide behind words written 1000's of years ago rather than face the dilemmas of the modern world.

Change threatens men's power, religion provides an excuse.

As an atheist I think it's a pretty feeble excuse, but that's another thread.